Is incest wrong?

[Kanzler]

I think the obsession with family bloodlines is something that contributes to the Earth's increasing overpopulation problems.

Here's a solution for that: Adopt! That way, you're giving a child a family, not contributing to overpopulation, and continuing your bloodline.

Well you wouldn't be continuing your bloodline, since adopted children are not related by blood.

 

[Pinkie-Dawn]

I think the obsession with family bloodlines is something that contributes to the Earth's increasing overpopulation problems.

Here's a solution for that: Adopt! That way, you're giving a child a family, not contributing to overpopulation, and continuing your bloodline.

Adoption is a no-go, because it's only benefitting your adopted child's family bloodline, not your own. And there's been videos like these proving that overpopulation is a myth.

 

[Kanzler]

My parents, their siblings, and their parents weren't really concerned about that with me.

Sure, but the point is that adoption doesn't solve Pinkie-Dawn's bloodline concerns.

Anyways, back on topic.

Your only reason given is that it could cause birth defects in children. But, what if the two agree never to bear children? Is it ok then?

Additionally, if your only reason against incest is genetic defects, do you believe that two people (not related) that have defects that could potentially pass said defects onto their children should not have a relationship?

In Canada, it is "sexual intercourse" that is criminalized (also, it has to be knowing, so if you sleep with a close relative by accident, no trouble there). "Sexual intercourse" has been taken by the courts to refer to penis-in-vagina sex since 1957 (and I don't think it's likely they would have expanded the definition in the meantime) so it looks like oral or anal sex is on the table, so to speak. It is a very specific act between a man and a woman that is criminalized, nothing else.

In Connecticut, "sexual intercourse" is taken to mean oral, vaginal, and anal sex. But "incest" is taken to mean relative marriage. Apparently sexual relations between relatives is not criminalized.

*shrug*

 

[Nah]

I have this feeling that this thread was made as a joke (and one fueled by salt) rather than to have a legitimate discussion, and with several members in on the joke. Please tell me I'm wrong.

 

[Kanzler]

I have this feeling that this thread was made as a joke (and one fueled by salt) rather than to have a legitimate discussion, and with several members in on the joke. Please tell me I'm wrong.

Regardless of what the initial intentions may be, I think it makes a great discussion topic. There's so many nuances to the subject that we have to tease out. What's important: social mores? consent and the harm principle? biological consequences? the practicalities involved in enforcing laws? unintended negative consequences a law or the lack of a law might have? the appearance of fairness under law? We've talked about all these issues in some way already, and there's still plenty more to unpack.

I think it's a great window into what the legal world is all about, and hopefully that those who participate in the discussion will come out with a greater respect for the challenges that legal systems tries to address every day.

 

[Her]

I have this feeling that this thread was made as a joke (and one fueled by salt) rather than to have a legitimate discussion, and with several members in on the joke. Please tell me I'm wrong.

Oh, you're not wrong. But it turns out legitimate discussion can be had! Haha!

Question for those involved in the topic: are real-life incestuous relationships truly consensual?

 

[Kanzler]

Oh, you're not wrong. But it turns out legitimate discussion can be had! Haha!

Question for those involved in the topic: are real-life incestuous relationships truly consensual?

Can they be? I think so. That one Zimbabwean example is enough for me. But of course the question goes deeper than whether the mere possibility of true consent exists.

I think sibling-sibling relationships are more likely to be consensual than parent-child. Some people would argue that the parent-child relationship never disappears, so that even adult children suffer from a power imbalance and this undermines whether consent can truly be given. Parents can be manipulative in general, and this can be creepy and "wrong" even if there isn't any sexual context.

These questions are relevant and might be revealing if we could answer them:

If a parent groomed a child to think that incest was okay, and the child consents, then is incest permissible in that case? If the child ends up leaving the incestuous relationship and is no longer willing to participate in incest, should the parent be punished for the incest that occurred before the child's decision to stop consenting?

My instinct says that child grooming is wrong because children are not considered able to give consent. But what if both parent and child are adults? I guess I have to say that consent could be possible.

But this relationship would still be frowned upon, because the parent is in a position of trust. Sexual relationships between people where one is in a position of trust can be unethical but not necessarily illegal. You might violate a code of conduct or professional ethics and be fired from your workplace, but it wouldn't necessarily result in a criminal punishment. I'm going to argue from analogy and say that we should treat adult parent-child incestuous relationships in the same way because they're both cases where consent is compromised by one party being in a position of trust. We might consider adult parent-child incestuous relationships to be unethical, but it is not deserving of criminal punishment.

 

[Midnight shadow]

Is incest wrong? If we take incest to mean any kind of sexual intercourse regardless of whether impregnation occurs or not, I honestly have no problem with it as long as it is consensual. On the subject of "child grooming" and mental conditioning, really that happens naturally. You teach a child from an early age that some things are right and others are wrong. Part of raising a child is repeatedly telling them over and over that x is bad and y is good. This is conditioning in its simplest form. Is that a bad thing? Depends on your perspective and what you consider to be "bad".

Let's say you have 2 children. One of taught that killing animals is bad regardless of the situation, while the other is taught that killing animals is good regardless of the situation. Both grow up fully believing what they havr bern taught, because they have been conditioned the same way, just to believe opposite things. Can you differentiate the act of cknditilning between the 2 children? Not really. Conditionjng and child grooming is a tool that we use to train children to live peacefully in society. But like all tools it can be used for "good" and "evil".

 

[Biogoji]

Your only reason given is that it could cause birth defects in children. But, what if the two agree never to bear children? Is it ok then?

Additionally, if your only reason against incest is genetic defects, do you believe that two people (not related) that have defects that could potentially pass said defects onto their children should not have a relationship?

Aside from the genetic defects i just personally view incest as something that is wrong and shouldn't be something that is commonly accepted due to the fact that often all it is someone you're related to. Yes people bring up true love but you have to admit that true love must have some boundaries in the end. Besides so people may just want to do incest because they are desperate for love and they can't get a girlfriend or a boyfriend so they decide to do it with their family members. It's crude but I'm sure that would be a motive that someone would have if incest was commonly accepted and let's been honest that is a path that most likely leads to manipulation.

 

[Midnight shadow]

Aside from the genetic defects i just personally view incest as something that is wrong and shouldn't be something that is commonly accepted due to the fact that often all it is someone you're related to. Yes people bring up true love but you have to admit that true love must have some boundaries in the end. Besides so people may just want to do incest because they are desperate for love and they can't get a girlfriend or a boyfriend so they decide to do it with their family members. It's crude but I'm sure that would be a motive that someone would have if incest was commonly accepted and let's been honest that is a path that most likely leads to manipulation.

Taking laws and social etiquette out of the question the only boundary to love is knowing the person exists (you can't love something you have no knowledge about). After all, if someone can fall madly in love with a wall or a ferris wheel why can't you have love between family members? Also, I feel like you are confusing love and sex. It is true that some people may be so desperate for sex that they turn to family members who may be more susceptible to manipulation and abuse, particularly children, but in these cases there usually isn't much love involved.

 

[gimmepie]

I find myself in a weird place when I wonder if incest is right or wrong. I mean, even with contraception there's always a risk of pregnancy and along with it the risk of genetic disorders as a result of inbreeding.

Yet, with contraceptives the risk of such things is quite low and in general I think that eliminates or minimalists the biggest argument against incest. So I guess logic tells me that it's okay and yet I can't help but personally be repulsed by the idea. I suppose that's a problem with me and not a problem with the issue though?

 

[Logan]

Sanguine is my sister and I fancy her so maybe idk

 

[Her]

I find myself in a weird place when I wonder if incest is right or wrong. I mean, even with contraception there's always a risk of pregnancy and along with it the risk of genetic disorders as a result of inbreeding.

Yet, with contraceptives the risk of such things is quite low and in general I think that eliminates or minimalists the biggest argument against incest. So I guess logic tells me that it's okay and yet I can't help but personally be repulsed by the idea. I suppose that's a problem with me and not a problem with the issue though?

I don't think there's anything wrong or at least unheard of with that response. Incest is called the oldest and most pervasive taboo for a reason - most if not all societies have a code detailing what is appropriate/inappropriate sexual behaviour and they almost universally have a condemnation of incest, obviously with variation on what defines incest. You have to take some liberties with the definitions given that we can only know so much without written language or code for those societies over the millennia. But the lingering pattern throughout recorded history is there. Well, unless you're a member of royalty, I guess. All bets are off there!

It's only natural for a knee-jerk repulsion to the concept given how deeply ingrained the distaste is.

 

[Alex Kaz]

I would only support incest in Japanese forums, to encourage hentai producers to create interesting stuff

Jokes aside, I shouldn't even be in this thread because I shit on right and wrong every chance I get, as I consider them flawed and too absolute, and I also shit on fixed morals, but that's an entirely another matter. Reading through most of these posts makes me wanna puke, by the way.

Anyway, on to the actual "point" of this thread.
I will not comment on the genetic defects of incest, because, while true and reasonable, incest does not necessarily involve giving birth, as some people already said.
However, being superficial and speaking purely theoretically sucks hard, and some of you do just that. So, I will try to approach the matter in a more realistic way to get my point through.
Have you ever considered the consequences of incest? Let's think of a scenario, in which you are dating your sibling. Have you considered what the rest of your family might think of it? Do you not care if they do not approve of it? No matter what their reasoning might be. Your parents, yes these people who raised you and cared for you, do not want you to bang your sister. Do you not appreciate what they did for you or take their opinion into consideration? There are so many people out there you can date. Why do you wanna fuck up your family? The only reason I can think of is you being unable to find a partner because you, simply and kindly put, suck and chose the "easy" way out.

Let's say your relationship with the family member you've been dating takes an undesirable way and you break up. Not only have you destroyed your family relationship with that family member, but you are now also forcing the rest of your family to choose between you and your "ex".
Family is the only thing you can rely on, yet you're willing to throw that privilege away, just to make your dick happy. And at the same time you are rude enough to call rejecting incest as something " morally wrong" or manipulation, merely because you're on the opposing end of it.

 

[Midnight shadow]

I would only support incest in Japanese forums, to encourage hentai producers to create interesting stuff

Jokes aside, I shouldn't even be in this thread because I **** on right and wrong every chance I get, as I consider them flawed and too absolute, and I also **** on fixed morals, but that's an entirely another matter. Reading through most of these posts makes me wanna puke, by the way.

Anyway, on to the actual "point" of this thread.
I will not comment on the genetic defects of incest, because, while true and reasonable, incest does not necessarily involve giving birth, as some people already said.
However, being superficial and speaking purely theoretically sucks hard, and some of you do just that. So, I will try to approach the matter in a more realistic way to get my point through.
Have you ever considered the consequences of incest? Let's think of a scenario, in which you are dating your sibling. Have you considered what the rest of your family might think of it? Do you not care if they do not approve of it? No matter what their reasoning might be. Your parents, yes these people who raised you and cared for you, do not want you to bang your sister. Do you not appreciate what they did for you or take their opinion into consideration? There are so many people out there you can date. Why do you wanna **** up your family? The only reason I can think of is you being unable to find a partner because you, simply and kindly put, suck and chose the "easy" way out.

Let's say your relationship with the family member you've been dating takes an undesirable way and you break up. Not only have you destroyed your family relationship with that family member, but you are now also forcing the rest of your family to choose between you and your "ex".
Family is the only thing you can rely on, yet you're willing to throw that privilege away, just to make your dick happy. And at the same time you are rude enough to call rejecting incest as something " morally wrong" or manipulation, merely because you're on the opposing end of it.

You bring up a very valid point, and I think that most people would choose family ties over an incestuous relationship, even if it is with a sibling that shared your feelings. Still, it adds a whole new moral dimension to the argument. That said, I personally would always choose love over family, incest or not. I have no real argument to back this up, except what I feel in my heart.

 

[Logan]

You bring up a very valid point, and I think that most people would choose family ties over an incestuous relationship, even if it is with a sibling that shared your feelings. Still, it adds a whole new moral dimension to the argument. That said, I personally would always choose love over family, incest or not. I have no real argument to back this up, except what I feel in my heart.

What if your sibling is really attractive, like a straight 10/10?

 

[Kanzler]

What if your sibling is really attractive, like a straight 10/10?

I don't think attractiveness makes the act of incest, or any other situation, any more right and wrong. For instance, if I claim to find random advances from strangers to be disturbing, then I should find advances from attractive people and unattractive people to be more or less equally disturbing. In another example, I don't think my boss would somehow be more justified in sleeping with me if I was more attractive. The morality of the act falls upon the act itself and the attractiveness of the people involved shouldn't be a factor.

 

[Sanguine]

I thought that I might as well answer the OP, considering that it's mine, so:

I personally don't care about whether or not others perform incestuous acts, as long as both parties are consenting adults. If said parties fully understand the social ramifications of said acts, then it isn't my place to tell them that what they're doing is "wrong". That being said, I will never fully understand the motivation behind said acts, as I don't see my siblings in that way.

Biologically, it can be argued that there is a problem with incest. If we are to consider the genetic defects that can arise in offspring, then sure. However, it's been pointed out in this thread that a couple may decide not to have children - two rational adults would surely be able to judge that they shouldn't procreate? If the biological issue is removed, then why exactly is it wrong? It would merely come down to social stigma.

I would only support incest in Japanese forums, to encourage hentai producers to create interesting stuff

Jokes aside, I shouldn't even be in this thread because I shit on right and wrong every chance I get, as I consider them flawed and too absolute, and I also shit on fixed morals, but that's an entirely another matter. Reading through most of these posts makes me wanna puke, by the way.

Anyway, on to the actual "point" of this thread.
I will not comment on the genetic defects of incest, because, while true and reasonable, incest does not necessarily involve giving birth, as some people already said.
However, being superficial and speaking purely theoretically sucks hard, and some of you do just that. So, I will try to approach the matter in a more realistic way to get my point through.
Have you ever considered the consequences of incest? Let's think of a scenario, in which you are dating your sibling. Have you considered what the rest of your family might think of it? Do you not care if they do not approve of it? No matter what their reasoning might be. Your parents, yes these people who raised you and cared for you, do not want you to bang your sister. Do you not appreciate what they did for you or take their opinion into consideration? There are so many people out there you can date. Why do you wanna fuck up your family? The only reason I can think of is you being unable to find a partner because you, simply and kindly put, suck and chose the "easy" way out.

Let's say your relationship with the family member you've been dating takes an undesirable way and you break up. Not only have you destroyed your family relationship with that family member, but you are now also forcing the rest of your family to choose between you and your "ex".
Family is the only thing you can rely on, yet you're willing to throw that privilege away, just to make your dick happy. And at the same time you are rude enough to call rejecting incest as something " morally wrong" or manipulation, merely because you're on the opposing end of it.

There are circumstances in which one's parents will not approve of their choice of partner, regardless of whether or not it's their sibling. Should you ignore your parents and follow your heart, despite the love and care that they've given you since you were born? In some cultures, parents have such a heavy hand in their children's love lives that any deviation from expectation will be met with severe disapproval - yet is it not the child's choice? Are they not allowed to fall in love, and be happy with the one they love?

The reason that you posit for the occurrence of incestuous acts is silly - a guy that's down on his luck won't suddenly be able to have sex with his sister, just as a similar guy wouldn't be able to pick a random stranger and have sex with her. Incest between two consenting adults still involves two rational parties, I doubt you could just initiate such a relationship because your love life "sucks".

 

[Pebbles]

when it comes to animals, i think it is wrong
but when it comes to humans.... don't know, if it can make your future baby really bad, as in health condition...... then i do not think you should do it
​

 

[Alex Kaz]

What if your sibling is really attractive, like a straight 10/10?

If my sister was a straight 10/10 I wouldn't be here atm hehe