Why was Pokemon Z skipped?

[Desert Stream~]

Let's put it this way, pokemon Z wasn't "skipped"
It was never going to exist in the first place.

 

[OmegaRuby and AlphaSapphire]

It's pretty obvious why Z was skipped.


Year Platform Title Sales(in millions)

1996 GB Pokémon Red, Blue, and Green 31.38

1998 GB Pokémon Yellow: Special Pikachu Edition 14.64

1999 GB Pokémon Gold and Silver 23.10

2000 GBC Pokémon Crystal 6.39

2002 GBA Pokémon Ruby and Sapphire 16.22

2004 GBA Pokémon FireRed and LeafGreen 12.00

2004 GBA Pokémon Emerald 6.32

2006 DS Pokémon Diamond and Pearl 17.63

2008 DS Pokémon Platinum 7.60

2009 DS Pokémon HeartGold and SoulSilver 12.72

2010 DS Pokémon Black and White 15.60

2012 DS Pokémon Black 2 and White 2 8.52

2013 3DS Pokémon X and Y 14.70

2014 3DS Pokémon Omega Ruby & Alpha Sapphire 11.84


Remakes and third versions don't sell nearly as well as completely new games. With how poorly XY were received, it's no surprise that Kalos has been abandoned. Gen 4 sales were up due to the popularity of Gen 3 (hence Gen 3 gets a remake), but sales have slipped consistently since. When sales trend downward you need to rethink your strategy which is what they're doing.

Damn, and people call Gen III the low point of Pokemon. If you only compare the original pairs (since they all share one) then RS did have a big drop compared to GS before it, but even then DP did managed to bring sales up. However, BW and XY see a downward push again. If this continues then SM will have like 13 Million or so in sales. Right now Pokemon is that a historical low point, sales wise. Of course sales doesn't mean if the game is good or bad. I enjoyed Emerald, but it's the worst selling one up there. And others say that BW were the best games yet (I think the Gen IV metal games were the high point), but they didn't do as good. Of course Yellow, Crystal, Emerald and all of Gen V might've suffered due to being at the end of the game's life time, thus they didn't do as good. That can't be said for Gen VI though.

@ Betty, then we'll be seeing a new generation every two years or so since Third versions, Sequels, and Remakes have been used to drag on the generation. At that point we might as well toss the idea of generations or we'll be doubling the number of Gen in less time than the first Seven.

 

[Z25]

Let's put it this way, pokemon Z wasn't "skipped"
It was never going to exist in the first place.

This. There was no thought of doing Z. Sun and moon already had stuff being worked on for it during XY as that's what the Strange Souvenir was for. ORAS and XY were meant to be filler imo. XY lacked quite a lot from the 5th gen which gave everything fans wanted, story, many new pokemon, old pokemon, challenge, and more. All of which ORAS lacked but seem to be building to Sun and Moon for, as evidence by the backpacker talking about qamazing sights in his region( possibly a nod to the graphics update and the amazing places in Hawaii that will be featured in Sun and Moon) and new battle facility.

The anime using Z should have been a dead giveaway that Z was coming as well. they want Sun and Moon to be the big focus, answer all of Gen 6's questions, and give the fans what they want while celebrating the Series anniversary,

 

[The Legacy of The Legends Creator :D]

im more excited for a new region instead of Z hoenstly

 

[Keiran]

Damn, and people call Gen III the low point of Pokemon. If you only compare the original pairs (since they all share one) then RS did have a big drop compared to GS before it, but even then DP did managed to bring sales up. However, BW and XY see a downward push again. If this continues then SM will have like 13 Million or so in sales. Right now Pokemon is that a historical low point, sales wise. Of course sales doesn't mean if the game is good or bad. I enjoyed Emerald, but it's the worst selling one up there. And others say that BW were the best games yet (I think the Gen IV metal games were the high point), but they didn't do as good. Of course Yellow, Crystal, Emerald and all of Gen V might've suffered due to being at the end of the game's life time, thus they didn't do as good. That can't be said for Gen VI though.

@ Betty, then we'll be seeing a new generation every two years or so since Third versions, Sequels, and Remakes have been used to drag on the generation. At that point we might as well toss the idea of generations or we'll be doubling the number of Gen in less time than the first Seven.

I'm expecting S&M sales to be higher than X&Y actually. With the 2DS, and how cheap it is now, a lot more people will have access to S&M. Plus the game should be a lot more appealing since a lot more development time went into it (or should have), since a third version was skipped. But we'll see about that.

 

[OmegaRuby and AlphaSapphire]

This. There was no thought of doing Z. Sun and moon already had stuff being worked on for it during XY as that's what the Strange Souvenir was for. ORAS and XY were meant to be filler imo. XY lacked quite a lot from the 5th gen which gave everything fans wanted, story, many new pokemon, old pokemon, challenge, and more. All of which ORAS lacked but seem to be building to Sun and Moon for, as evidence by the backpacker talking about qamazing sights in his region( possibly a nod to the graphics update and the amazing places in Hawaii that will be featured in Sun and Moon) and new battle facility.

The anime using Z should have been a dead giveaway that Z was coming as well. they want Sun and Moon to be the big focus, answer all of Gen 6's questions, and give the fans what they want while celebrating the Series anniversary,

I think that Gen VI was more set up for SM rather than filled until SM were ready. Masuda hinted that he had this big plan in an interview following the release of OrAs, in which he said he had 'big ideas that he couldn't wait to share'. That we might soon be getting a lot of info on SM soon (potentially in both the upcoming Trailer and in Corocoro (Serebii said they had an exclusive for next month's issue after all)) might mean that it's time for those 'big ideas' to start dripping out to the fanbase. He also said that he wanted to tie up XY in an interesting way. Oddly he said something similar about OrAs irc.

 

[VermillionBreak]

Honestly the only thing I want out of Sun and Moon is a lot more indepth involved story, and a crap ton of lore/post game/hidden content. I consider X/Y their attempt at "testing the waters". ORAS was just a remake with a few added goodies. Now, Sun and Moon SHOULD in theory be the real deal. The game to wow us.

Of course, don't go getting your hopes up too high just in case, but that's my theory.

 

[Sabrewulf238]

I think the most likely scenario is that they're going to have another post game episode similar to the one in ORAS but have it centered around Zygarde. (and maybe AZ and his Floette too)

There might be a visit to Kalos in a limited capacity (maybe Terminus Cave and it's surrounding area) but I wouldn't count on it. Zygarde could just as easily come to Alola.

 

[smocks]

Also Pokemon Sun&Moon has been in the making for a few years now, Pokemon X&Y was just a test out the 3D features + game plays. Also, X&Y makes connections to Sun&Moon and also explain how X&Y felt rushed.

 

[WingsofBliss]

Honestly the only thing I want out of Sun and Moon is a lot more indepth involved story, and a crap ton of lore/post game/hidden content. I consider X/Y their attempt at "testing the waters". ORAS was just a remake with a few added goodies. Now, Sun and Moon SHOULD in theory be the real deal. The game to wow us.

Of course, don't go getting your hopes up too high just in case, but that's my theory.

I sure hope so. The leaked game list from NeoGAF that had them under a codename "Pokemon Rainbow" for a November release is touting it as a "special 20th Anniversary edition". If SM really is supposed to be special 20th Anniversary editions, I would hope that Game Freak would treat the games as such when making them.

 

[User Anon 1848]

Plot twist: We get Z version after S&M.

Loose ends aside I have no problem with them doing away with the third game per gen tradition as it usually results in us getting less content for the original games. Still if they don't start adding more content to the original games then people will be longing for a sequel whether they get one or not. X/Y and even ORAS left a lot to be desired in terms of a single player post-game experience. The story took a step back compared to 5th gen as well. They can't coast on their online features and graphical improvements forever.

 

[Rivvon]

Plot twist: We get Z version after S&M.

Loose ends aside I have no problem with them doing away with the third game per gen tradition as it usually results in us getting less content for the original games. Still if they don't start adding more content to the original games then people will be longing for a sequel whether they get one or not. X/Y and even ORAS left a lot to be desired in terms of a single player post-game experience. The story took a step back compared to 5th gen as well. They can't coast on their online features and graphical improvements forever.

This. If doing away with third versions means the core games are given as much content as the third versions from the get-go, great. That's a wonderful approach and I welcome it wholeheartedly.

But if SM turn out to just be XY with more proportionate character models, well, I shudder to think how the series will be handled from here on out. At least before you could wait for the third version if you were concerned about the content of the main set of games. But now? Now there's no such luxury.




I wouldn't hold my breath for any sort of resolution to XY, as much as it pains me to say it. With the mysterious backpacker in XY, it does seem clear that SM were in planning for quite some time now. But I still think that doesn't excuse how XY (and ORAS) were handled. Sure, it may have been their "stepping stone," it may have let them "test the waters" when dealing with 3D for the first time, but... people said that about BW, and how it focused on story moreso than making big mechanical changes or major graphical overhauls or retaining features such as the Battle Frontier. But even BW rectified that in B2W2. XY doesn't have any such game now. This just means SM have much higher standards to live up to, but considering the series's recent track record, it's hard to bet on it.

 

[Bobbylicious]

I would have loved Z. I felt like it was really needed, because as others said, Kalos felt really unfinished. It just seems like Gen 6 was really half-assed, and that region that just sits in the back of your mind until you remember it. Just disappointment really.

 

[COOLTRAINER♂]

Masuda has said in the past that ideas they've had during development that couldn't be implemented due to deadlines on original games were used for titles like Platinum (source), but I'd also agree that they likely wrote out the story and designed the game to be complete in their view when they begun development on X and Y.
Personally I think X and Y are for sure a 'complete' game, one that shows care and effort put into the game from around 200 people on the development side alone. Some things might always feel like they could be expanded, but the nature of making games is always a compromise, especially as they get more complicated and the graphics become so much more detailed.

 

[WingsofBliss]

I still don't understand what kind of "resolution" Kalos could've gotten? Putting aside the sales reason that Keiran mentioned earlier in this thread, it's possible that Z was generally never intended to be made in the first place, and the lore regarding Xerneas/Yveltal/Zygarde is as far as Gamefreak could've gone. I agree that X/Y felt rushed, but only up to that point. It makes 0 sense to me to start thinking this is the end of the world because of what Gamefreak pulled in X/Y, like some posters seem to imply that this somehow means the games would somehow take a nosedive because Gamefreak is now going to ignore the core story or legends entirely.

It's one thing if you feel the games are rushed and messy in certain areas, it's another if you feel they're incomplete. Gamefreak apparently feels done with it, so in that definition, they are complete. Whether or not you agree with the finished product is another thing altogether.

Personally speaking, I can't say I'm interested in a third game releasing every single time. I think most of us have gotten so used to either third games or sequels that it's an expected thing at this point, considering it's been a normal aspect of the gaming franchise since...the beginning. But things change; maybe we don't get third games anymore and all the content the third games would normally have would just be shoehorned into the initial two games. Which then means, if you apply this to X/Y, if Z did come out, it wouldn't have gone very far into Zygarde's story anyway, leaving people still disappointed.

Maybe things would change, if S/M's third legendary is interesting enough and the entire trio has some sort of deep lore and backstory that's worth getting into. But I don't see this as too terribly likely, and that the third legendary would have some sort of brief overture and maybe some literature in the games about them or something. Is this satisfactory? Probably not, but I hesitate to say the games are going to be set on fire if everything else is done correctly.

I don't think Zygarde was the only problem that people have had. While it doesn't really matter to me personally which direction Game Freak chooses to go, I am going to lay out a few things from not just XY, but ORAS as well that could have been elaborated on a little better:

- Zygarde's direct relationship with Xerneas and Yveltal. The most we got about that is from the official website, stating that its more powerful than Xerneas and Yveltal combined in its Complete Forme. The yet unreleased moves Thousand Arrows and Thousand Waves are also designed to counteract them. Storyline-wise and lore-wise, we know next to nothing about its critical role other than its Pokedex entry and through the anime... but I would like to remind you that not everybody watches the anime either, nor would be liked to forced to watch it just to see Zygarde's lore fulfilled. Rayquaza, Giratina, and Kyurem were in the same boat for RS, DP, and BW but were expanded on and given a leading role in Emerald, Platinum, and BW2 respectively.

- Anistar Sundial. Sycamore in-game theorized that it was connected to the Legendary Pokemon, the Ultimate Weapon, and Mega-Evolution. It's also theorized that it came from space. Other than energy signatures, just how are they connected exactly? Again, the anime poster for XYZ heavily implied that it will have a role in the Flare/Zygarde arc. And I would like to stress again, not everybody watches the anime, nor would like to.

- The Mega-Evolution lore and the Kalos War are insinuated to be connected, but were not clearly elaborated on. Lysandre seems to be interested at first in the player's quest of solving the Mega-Evolution history, but never really pursues it. The combination of these two plot lines with ORAS thrown into the mix has turned it into a big mess.

- Mega-Evolution origins. This one I think is a bigger knee-jerker than Zygarde within the fandom from what I've seen. It was insinuated in XY that ME originated in Kalos and could be found nowhere else. It was also outright stated that a specific Lucario was the first Pokemon to Mega-evolve. And then whoops, ORAS comes out with the Delta Episode and blows that all to Poke-hell.

- Zinnia as a character is an enigma. Her explanation of alternate universes and why she knows so much about Kalos' history, and the fate of her lost friend Aster(whom her Whismur is named after).

- Why did AZ plant that huge tree in Sootopolis? You can also see the Eternal Flower from his Floette growing at the base of the tree. The latter is probably nothing more than an Easter Egg, but what was AZ's purpose of planting that tree? This one bugs me the most personally.

With all of this said, it would seem that Game Freak had the intention of making connections between Kalos and Hoenn, and most people argue that a 3rd version "Z" would have tied up all the loose ends in both sets of games and set things straight. The reasoning for this line of thinking is because that is how Emerald worked with RS, how Platinum worked with DP, and how BW2 worked with BW; the 3rd versions/sequels have typically been the ones that added on and/or fixed not just storyline issues, but game mechanics and features as well. For example, people complained that XY and ORAS were too easy WITHOUT the use of EXP Share and Super-Training, they may have been able to put a difficulty level in Z like they did with BW2. There was also the lack of post-game content in XY.

tl;dr There's a lot more problems that people had with XY than just unresolved Zygarde lore. Please understand.

 

[WingsofBliss]

And again, I responded to this earlier in another thread because BettyNewbie made the exact same points you did. tl;dr; there's nothing really much to expand on beyond what's already given. If you feel differently, that's fine, but GF would be treading on dangerous territory to expand on the lore of Life and Death and the in-between. I don't know about you, but that's heavy stuff. And then there's the "why create them if they're so deep anyways", in which I then respond that you can ponder about that question until you turn blue in the face but ultimately you take the cards that you are dealt with in this scenario, and that is that this is the furthest that they will most likely go as far as Zygarde's purpose and relationship with Xerneas and Yveltal.



/shrugs. Intentional cliffhanger probably. You probably won't be satisfied with that answer, but unless anyone else has a better one, that's what we have to stick one. I don't think a whole entire game for the sake of explaining that tiny detail is necessary.




That's just poor storytelling in general, which was my biggest qualm with X/Y. A third game won't fix this, it'll just rehash the story in its entirety. Emerald followed this pattern, and so did Platinum to a degree. They just rehashed the story with the small exception of making the third legendary the forefront. If you want to go even farther, even B2W2 did this. It's not a surprise. If the story is a mess, a third game is going to build up on that mess. If the story was decent to begin with, a third game would make it better. The entire premise of X/Y's story was flawed to begin with, so I don't think a third game is going to fix this.



idk about you but it'd truly be silly to make a huge battle-changing mechanic like mega-evolution a kalos exclusive.




refer to poor storytelling quote. a third game wouldn't help much with this.



refer to poor storytelling quote.



The biggest problem I have with this reasoning is that you (and others like yourself) are leaning way too much on what was "traditionally" been done and applying that towards X/Y. Meaning, we're so used to and exposed to third games and sequels that it's become the basic expectation, but I think a lot of people are forgetting that third games aren't even necessary; they're glorified versions of the first two games with a slight bit more storytelling and mechanics enhancements (or one or the other). Every single third game was like this. Yellow, Crystal, Emerald, Platinum, B2W2, they ALL followed this. If there's a poorly told story, then a third game won't fix this to be quite honest, and I'd go so far as to say it'd make things a bit worse. It worked out well in the past because each story from each evil team in the past and each event were told well and the third game built upon that premise. X/Y is the odd one out here, with plotholes and cliffhangers abound, and a third game would generally either fix those plotholes and cliffhangers and add MORE, therefore defeating the purpose of a third game in the first place, or just trash the story even more.

tl;dr I understand people's frustrations with the many things X/Y and even ORAS could've improved. This doesn't mean that a Z version is somehow going to fix all of this, and I'd argue otherwise, if Pokemon gaming history is anything to go by.

To tell you the truth, WingsofBliss, I'd go so far as to say that Zygarde kinda represents purgatory in a way (or whatever people's idea is as a "balance" between life and death), but Gamefreak dares not trend in that area for obvious reasons, hence they dont really bother going into that explanation of what its relationship is between Xygarde and Yveltal. They created a Pokemon probably to make a statement of what it represents, some details about it, and left it at that.

This isn't about what I personally feel about the games, though.(I had made it clear in my previous post that I didn't care?) I was just trying to explain the other reasons why people weren't so happy, because to me it seemed you were only focused on the Zygarde issue.

 

[BettyNewbie]

Of course Yellow, Crystal, Emerald and all of Gen V might've suffered due to being at the end of the game's life time, thus they didn't do as good. That can't be said for Gen VI though.

I think the only games that argument truly applied to were Crystal and B2W2, IMO. Crystal came out at the very tail end of the GBC's lifespan, as well as the very tail end of the Pokémania Fad. The game was still on store shelves by the time RS came out and rendered it obsolete before it was even 2 years old. That's why Crystal sales plummeted so dramatically from GS.

B2W2 were a similar case, coming out at the tail end of the DS' lifespan and still being readily available in stores by the time XY came out. The shutoff of DS wi-fi in mid-2014 also rendered the games obsolete after less than 2 years.

Overall, though, you're correct about the games' sales having dropped to historical lows. XY are the worst-selling main pair, and ORAS are the worst-selling remakes. The anime's ratings have similarly plummeted in the XY era, so this hasn't just been limited to the main series games. It's a franchise-wide decline.

@ Betty, then we'll be seeing a new generation every two years or so since Third versions, Sequels, and Remakes have been used to drag on the generation. At that point we might as well toss the idea of generations or we'll be doubling the number of Gen in less time than the first Seven.

That could have both good and bad implications. While it would be good to see GF focusing more on new content over remakes, the games could easily turn into even more of a formulaic assembly line than they already are. The loss of sequels as even a possibility would also be a terrible thing, IMO.

 

[OmegaRuby and AlphaSapphire]

I think the only games that argument truly applied to were Crystal and B2W2, IMO. Crystal came out at the very tail end of the GBC's lifespan, as well as the very tail end of the Pokémania Fad. The game was still on store shelves by the time RS came out and rendered it obsolete before it was even 2 years old. That's why Crystal sales plummeted so dramatically from GS.

B2W2 were a similar case, coming out at the tail end of the DS' lifespan and still being readily available in stores by the time XY came out. The shutoff of DS wi-fi in mid-2014 also rendered the games obsolete after less than 2 years.

Overall, though, you're correct about the games' sales having dropped to historical lows. XY are the worst-selling main pair, and ORAS are the worst-selling remakes. The anime's ratings have similarly plummeted in the XY era, so this hasn't just been limited to the main series games. It's a franchise-wide decline.



That could have both good and bad implications. While it would be good to see GF focusing more on new content over remakes, the games could easily turn into even more of a formulaic assembly line than they already are. The loss of sequels as even a possibility would also be a terrible thing, IMO.

I think that pulling Gen V's would be preferable to just doing rushed Gens.

 

[BettyNewbie]

I think that pulling Gen V's would be preferable to just doing rushed Gens.

I think it says something that both GSC and BW/2 often rank highly on people's "favorite games" lists. Since both gens came out at the very tail ends of their respective handhelds, I think that allowed them to turn out more polished and complete than games like RSE or XY that were just starting out on a completely brand new handheld.

I think the lack of remakes in those gens may have also helped, IMO. There's no question that both RSE and XY partly suffered from GF having to devote extra resources into making FRLG and ORAS, and the end result in both gens were two sets of mediocre games rather than one set of great ones.

Only Gen 4 avoided this issue to an extent, and even then, DP were still very broken, unfinished games. Plus, GF had the advantage of the DS being an extremely popular and long-lived handheld, so that probably gave them more time to polish Platinum and HGSS compared to what happened with Gens 3 and 6.

 

[OmegaRuby and AlphaSapphire]

I think it says something that both GSC and BW/2 often rank highly on people's "favorite games" lists. Since both gens came out at the very tail ends of their respective handhelds, I think that allowed them to turn out more polished and complete than games like RSE or XY that were just starting out on a completely brand new handheld.

I think the lack of remakes in those gens may have also helped, IMO. There's no question that both RSE and XY partly suffered from GF having to devote extra resources into making FRLG and ORAS, and the end result in both gens were two sets of mediocre games rather than one set of great ones.

Only Gen 4 avoided this issue to an extent, and even then, DP were still very broken, unfinished games. Plus, GF had the advantage of the DS being an extremely popular and long-lived handheld, so that probably gave them more time to polish Platinum and HGSS compared to what happened with Gens 3 and 6.

They also finished Sinnoh story up before remaking the Johto based games. I wanted them to do a Z before OrAs to wrap up Kalos.
I think that FrLg coming out so close to Emerald hurt both sets of games. And GF should've polished OrAs even more to add the BF.