What is Cresselia's secret

[Juxapose]

Okay, here's the rundown.

Everytime I fight a trainer with Cresselia, I cannot for any reason do much damage to them. They have way too much HP, Defense and Special Defense. I have hit them with the hardest moves even while carrying choice band or Choice specs. There was once ONCE where I beat a Cresselia, and that was hitting it with a Weavile wearing a Choice band, and I had t hit it TWICE because it only took half it's HP.

Now, I will confess that I prefer to play sweeper as opposed to dealing with calculating HP, defenses, and held items top make Tanks or walls. Metagross has been my only tank until Gen 6 where I started to play around with bulky Pokemon. For this, I will say that I have little knowledge on how walls and tanks are built. But for some reason that I cannot explain, some Pokemon have been insanely bulky despite their stats. The main offenders are Cresselia, Tyranitar (which REALLLY confuses me), Rotom, and Porygon 2. Cresselia has been really getting on my nerves because unless I have my Banded or Life orbed weavile, I cannot take it down. I had a banded Haxorus hit it with outrage, and it did less than 1/10 of it's HP. Same Cresselia got a direct hit with my Spec'd Jolteon's Thunder, and it did LESS damage. I can't figure out why this thing can't take damage.

Like I said, I know little about walls and tanks, so I am NOT claiming people hack these pokemon on Battle spot. But what I will say that I tried to follow their lead and make a bulky Pokemon myself. So my Audino was born. I named it Miharu, 31 IV to HP, Def, Special Def, Special attack, and speed; Calm Nature; 110 EV to HP, 200EV to special defense, 200ev to Special Attack. Moves are Wish, Calm Mind, Refresh, and Dazzling gleam. With that, I sent it out to Battle spot, and it did not do too well. After Mega evolution, Miharu took a direct hit with thunder, and lost half it's HP. I did not even get a chance to use wish to replenish it's HP. Another battle it fought a non mega evolved Heracross, and lost 80% it's HP to Close Combat. (I know I don't have much defensive bulk, but you would think that HP and natural defense would hold up batter than that?)

So tell me, what am I doing wrong? What is the secret to building tanks and walls that I am missing?

Note: Porygon 2 laughs at my close combat only taking 25% its max HP.
Mega Tyranitar took a Focus blast to the face and did less than 20% it's max HP which is bull with it's 4x weakness to fighting.
There was once a Rotom-W that took a Grass knot and did so little damage, I'd swear it was only 1 single HP of damage.

 

[PlatinumDude]

Cresselia is insanely naturally bulky: base 120 HP/120 Defense/130 Special Defense makes it an incredibly tough nut to crack without super effective hits. Cresselia generally runs Bold or Calm with 252 HP/252 Def/4 SDef or 252 HP/4 Def/252 SDef, depending on the team's needs.

 

[Polar Spectrum]

Okay, here's the rundown.

Everytime I fight a trainer with Cresselia, I cannot for any reason do much damage to them.
Yeah, they have massive HP, Def, and Sp Def. Probably the most collectively in the game.They have way too much HP, Defense and Special Defense. I have hit them with the hardest moves even while carrying choice band or Choice specs. There was once ONCE where I beat a Cresselia, and that was hitting it with a Weavile wearing a Choice band, and I had t hit it TWICE because it only took half it's HP. I'm not gonna copy paste calcs like I assume my antecedents posting will, but Heracross Megahorn, a nasty plot boosted Dark Pulse, Gengar's Shadow Ball, any physical attacker ghost types Phantom Force, but really heracross' megahorn especially, should mess a Cresselia up. If you haven't been doing enough damage, you haven't been hitting it with the right stuff.

Now, I will confess that I prefer to play sweeper as opposed to dealing with calculating HP, defenses, and held items top make Tanks or walls. Metagross has been my only tank until Gen 6 where I started to play around with bulky Pokemon. For this, I will say that I have little knowledge on how walls and tanks are built. Pretty much just with HP/Def/Sp Def investments instead of offensive stats. But for some reason that I cannot explain, some Pokemon have been insanely bulky despite their stats. EV's yo. All the pokemon you list after this are typically built bulky, and have typings which can help. (ttar's does not usually lol) The main offenders are Cresselia, Tyranitar (which REALLLY confuses me), Rotom, and Porygon 2. Cressellia is mono Psychic, with aforementioned insane bulk, Ttar has variable bulk depending on builds, and will almost always have boosted Sp Def because it's a rock type, and in a sandstorm weather condition, and Porygon 2 is probably eviolited when you face it, and has bulk investments, AND only one weakness in fighting. Cresselia has been really getting on my nerves because unless I have my Banded or Life orbed weavile, I cannot take it down. If this is really an issue, seriously - mega heracross or gengar. Or boost your attacks up yo. I had a banded Haxorus hit it with outrage, and it did less than 1/10 of it's HP. Well this has to be baloney, or you leaving something out. I don't need a calc to know that's not right. Your Haxorus, even with a 0 IV and hindering nature I'm pretty sure, with the EV's and a banded base 120 stab move should do more than 10% to a cresslia.Same Cresselia got a direct hit with my Spec'd Jolteon's Thunder, and it did LESS damage. I can't figure out why this thing can't take damage. Same thing, that's not the math yo. It might've not done much but it shoulda done 10% unless other factors were in play.

Like I said, I know little about walls and tanks, so I am NOT claiming people hack these pokemon on Battle spot. But what I will say that I tried to follow their lead and make a bulky Pokemon myself. So my Audino was born. I named it Miharu, 31 IV to HP, Def, Special Def, Special attack, and speed; Calm Nature; 110 EV to HP, 200EV to special defense, 200ev to Special Attack. there's a problem there, if you wanted max bulk / wallage, don't do the Sp. Atk. Just do bulk EV's and give it boosting moves (not sure what Audino gets) or just high base power stab attacks or support moves mate. Moves are Wish, Calm Mind, Refresh, and Dazzling gleam. With that, I sent it out to Battle spot, and it did not do too well. After Mega evolution, Miharu took a direct hit with thunder, and lost half it's HP. From what :U that's important here hahah. I did not even get a chance to use wish to replenish it's HP. Another battle it fought a non mega evolved Heracross, and lost 80% it's HP to Close Combat.Lucky it didn't lose more; Mega Audino doesn't resist Close Combat, it takes nuetral damage. Moreover you didn't go full physical bulk on your set, and you bet that guy's got adamant on his Heracross, Close Combat comes off that thing like a freakn' mortar with its 185 base attack with stab and being a 120 base move. (I know I don't have much defensive bulk, but you would think that HP and natural defense would hold up batter than that?)

So tell me, what am I doing wrong? What is the secret to building tanks and walls that I am missing? Full commitment yo. And typing / meta experience / knowledge

Note: Porygon 2 laughs at my close combat only taking 25% its max HP. Close Combat from who?
Mega Tyranitar took a Focus blast to the face and did less than 20% it's max HP which is bull with it's 4x weakness to fighting. From who? And again, in sand its got boosted Sp Def. Did it use a chople berry too? Was it vested?
There was once a Rotom-W that took a Grass knot and did so little damage, I'd swear it was only 1 single HP of damage. Wash Rotom isn't very heavy - so that's like, a .... 60? maybe - base power grass attack. Not gonna be very effective even with a strong Sp Attacker

So yeah, most suggestions and comments in bold, but basically brush up on the basics mate, no offense.

Edit: Oh yeah, I don't think I mentioned it - but yo if you can't break the wall; throw some status on it to wear it down lol

over a couple turns a toxic will do more than most non-super or boosted lackluster attacks.

 

[Juxapose]

Mega Tyranitar took a Focus blast to the face and did less than 20% it's max HP which is bull with it's 4x weakness to fighting. From who? And again, in sand its got boosted Sp Def. Did it use a chople berry too? Was it vested?

It was a Mega Tyranitar.

Grass Knot also tends to do little to Rotom-Wash because it's very light and Grass Knot is weight based.

This is true, but all other battles Grass knot has been able to rip a chunk of HP off Rotom.

 

[luke]

Without giving us details on the EVs, items and what not on the Pokemon doing the damage I don't understand how you expect us to give you good advice on what to do. If you provide us more info to go on we can help.

 

[Juxapose]

Without giving us details on the EVs, items and what not on the Pokemon doing the damage I don't understand how you expect us to give you good advice on what to do. If you provide us more info to go on we can help.

With Charizard and Blaziken being exceptions, all my Sweeper Pokemon are speed based with their appropriate speed boosting natures (I.E. Weavile and Haxorus are Jolly, while Jolteon is Timid). All my Pokemon bred by me to have Max IV on all important stats such as attack/special attack, speed, HP, defense, special defense. EV's are normally distributed 252 to it's main attacking stat and it's speed, while the last 6 go to HP. I typically equip a choice Spec/Band, Life Orb, or other item that raises attacking power. At least one of them is carrying a focus band or sash. I can assure and guarantee that these Pokemon are very strong and do extremely well in Battle spot. I am not claiming that I win all battles, but I play enough times to know what is normal and abnormal.

 

[Polar Spectrum]

Hah yeah sorry if I sounded harsh Juxapose; but most of those are just knowing the pokemon's base stats, typings, abilities, and common hold items. A Wash Rotom has base 107 Sp Def, can have Sp Def EV's in it (or an item - if you really wanna know this, use battle replay and use something with frisk, knock off, theif, etc in the rematch against this opponent - assuming you saved it) And MOST importantly - I looked up its weight... it's .7 pounds mate hahah. That's .... a base 20 power grass knot, if I'm - knot mistaken. *dies*


And on the Ttar thing; it must've been in sand, given its ability - and being mega knocks out chople and assault vest. What used Focus Blast? If his was specially bulky, a weaker non stab focus blast could've done minimal damage, but otherwise that math don't add up yo.

 

[Juxapose]

Hah yeah sorry if I sounded harsh Juxapose; but most of those are just knowing the pokemon's base stats, typings, abilities, and common hold items. A Wash Rotom has base 107 Sp Def, can have Sp Def EV's in it (or an item - if you really wanna know this, use battle replay and use something with frisk, knock off, theif, etc in the rematch against this opponent.

Thanks for the advice. I have used this many times over. So in other threads when people swear that my opponent is scarfed or vested, I already know what my opponent was carrying cause I already Mocked the battle.

I looked up its weight... it's .7 pounds mate hahah. That's .... a base 20 power grass knot, if I'm - knot mistaken. *dies*

Thanks for looking that up. But out of experience, Grass knot is still good enough to do good damage. Not knock it out in one hit, but if that's the only move you have to do damage to it, it works. Only once it did close to nothing. I just want to know the secret to being that tough of a wall without vesting.

And on the Ttar thing; it must've been in sand, given its ability - and being mega knocks out chople and assault vest. What used Focus Blast? If his was specially bulky, a weaker non stab focus blast could've done minimal damage, but otherwise that math don't add up yo.

Raichu used Focus Blast. I am well aware of the spec def boost, but once again I am speaking out of experience not stats. When I am fighting Tyranitar or Mega Tyranitar, Focus blast from any monster should do at least 50% of it's health. With 4x weakness to fighting, I had my weavile do brick break and KO'd it with 1 hit, and Tyranitar has insane defense. I also have a Tyranitar Myself, and the Special defense boost has not helped me any, Mega or not; Vested or not. One last thing, I have not encountered a Tyranitar with a Chopple berry yet.

 

[Juxapose]

In other words, nobody knows how to make Cresselia so bulky, it just is. . .

 

[Polar Spectrum]

But on your Tyranitar assumptions; the game doesn't lie, and it's not subject to misinformation - so I have to say there's something you missed mate. Chople berry Ttar was more common in gen 5 I think, so yeh. But all the damage is calculated using many factors and there's nothing it overlooks or fabricates to randomly do more or less. (at least by that large of a margin. There is a tinnnny variable damage roll for a high or low hit - but that's seriously maybe MAYBE 5 or 10 % bonus at MOST.)

 

[Omicron]

Cresselia is incredibly bulky. Also, both Rotom-W and Mega Tyranitar have humongous Special Defense. The calcs don't lie, haha.

Raichu's sp attack is sub par, that's why it does so little damage.

0 SpA Tough Claws Mega Metagross Grass Knot (20 BP) vs. 248 HP / 0 SpD Rotom-W: 40-48 (13.2 - 15.8%) -- possibly the worst move ever

220 SpA Raichu Focus Blast vs. 0 HP / 0 SpD Mega Tyranitar in Sand: 64-76 (18.7 - 22.2%) -- possible 5HKO

 

[Juxapose]

Cresselia is incredibly bulky. Also, both Rotom-W and Mega Tyranitar have humongous Special Defense. The calcs don't lie, haha.

Raichu's sp attack is sub par, that's why it does so little damage.

0 SpA Tough Claws Mega Metagross Grass Knot (20 BP) vs. 248 HP / 0 SpD Rotom-W: 40-48 (13.2 - 15.8%) -- possibly the worst move ever

220 SpA Raichu Focus Blast vs. 0 HP / 0 SpD Mega Tyranitar in Sand: 64-76 (18.7 - 22.2%) -- possible 5HKO

Still off-topic.
Still not helpful.
Still does not answer the question.

 

[Zeffy]

It's not difficult to realize that being inherently bulky is a thing, is it? To break through Cresselia's insane defenses, you'd have to be equipped properly. Same goes with Tyranitar--I'm going to be frank but Raichu is a terrible Pokemon in general.

 

[KorpiklaaniVodka]

CB Heracross is a great answer to Cress. It outright OHKOes that thing after Stealth Rock.

 

[Megan]

Let me introduce you to your newest weapon against Cresselia:

Chimecho @ Focus Sash / Leftovers
EVs: 252 HP / 92 SpD / 164 Spe
Ability: Levitate
Impish / Careful Nature
- Knock Off / Toxic
- Taunt
- Recover
- Healing Wish / Heal Bell

Leftovers makes Chimecho live longer against Cresselia, while Focus Sash allows it to potentially do something to other Pokemon as well. 164 Speed EVs let Chim outspeed uninvested Cress, max HP for max mixed bulk, 92 SpD because Psyshock doesn't do much anyway. Knock off gets rid of Leftovers, while Toxic puts a timer on Cress (just watch out for them SubCM Cresselia). Taunt prevents Cress from doing anything, Recover makes Chim stay alive, while also having more PP than Moonlight does. Heal Bell gets rid of nasty status, especially usefull for your Sweepers, while Healing Wish allows your Pokes for a potential comeback.

Alternatively you could use Pokemon that are actually good, like Gothitelle, who eats stall for breakfast.

 

[PlatinumDude]

It's not difficult to realize that being inherently bulky is a thing, is it? To break through Cresselia's insane defenses, you'd have to be equipped properly. Same goes with Tyranitar--I'm going to be frank but Raichu is a terrible Pokemon in general.

To build on to this, stuff that can easily use Cresselia as setup fodder includes Substitute + Dragon Dance Mega Gyarados; they can beat it if they boost up. If Cresselia lacks Moonblast, Mega Gyarados can easily set up a Substitute to block incoming Thunder Waves and Toxics, Dragon Dance up, then hit it hard with Crunch:

+1 252 Atk Mold Breaker Mega Gyarados Crunch vs. 252 HP / 252+ Def Cresselia: 284-336 (63.9 - 75.6%) -- guaranteed 2HKO after Leftovers recovery

Swords Dance Bisharp also hits Cresselia very hard:

+2 252+ Atk Bisharp Knock Off (97.5 BP) vs. 252 HP / 252+ Def Cresselia: 428-506 (96.3 - 113.9%) -- 81.3% chance to OHKO

 

[Juxapose]

Let me introduce you to your newest weapon against Cresselia:

Chimecho @ Focus Sash / Leftovers
EVs: 252 HP / 92 SpD / 164 Spe
Ability: Levitate
Impish / Careful Nature
- Knock Off / Toxic
- Taunt
- Recover
- Healing Wish / Heal Bell

Leftovers makes Chimecho live longer against Cresselia, while Focus Sash allows it to potentially do something to other Pokemon as well. 164 Speed EVs let Chim outspeed uninvested Cress, max HP for max mixed bulk, 92 SpD because Psyshock doesn't do much anyway. Knock off gets rid of Leftovers, while Toxic puts a timer on Cress (just watch out for them SubCM Cresselia). Taunt prevents Cress from doing anything, Recover makes Chim stay alive, while also having more PP than Moonlight does. Heal Bell gets rid of nasty status, especially usefull for your Sweepers, while Healing Wish allows your Pokes for a potential comeback.

Alternatively you could use Pokemon that are actually good, like Gothitelle, who eats stall for breakfast.

YES!!!

This right here, this is what I've been looking for! This right here is Cresselia's secret. Cresselia's bulk was looking as indestructible to me. But this tactic was the secret I could not see. Thank you!

 

[Nah]

Tbh I don't know why you never thought of a Taunt user before....

 

[Juxapose]

Tbh I don't know why you never thought of a Taunt user before....

As an all out offensive team, Taunt is not usually on my mind. Actually, I normally love players to set up, it cripples them more than anything in my team. Especially with the inclusion of my Aururus which has broken down countless Sword dances, Dragon dances, Calm Minds, and other fans of people setting up, Taunt was something I thought was useless. Not to mention that Taunt rarely works on me, as my team rarely needs setting up and it may be hard to predict when I will be doing it.

Not to mention that Taunt is not the only part of this tactic that I need. The whole package has inspired me to train a whole new breed of Pokemon that can be used to shut down and eat super-tanks.

 

[Polar Spectrum]

Like I said, a modest suggestion of brushing up on the basics could really help imo, taunt is pretty handy for not just keeping things from setting up, but stopping things from pestering your mons. Like Cressellia; or other common walls. Not to mention I'm not sure how your aurorus is stopping things that set up with such ease - unless it had like, sash and mirror coat and you surprised one sweeper, buuuuut that's mostly a 1 time deal