Team Plasma Motto

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    In my fic, Pokemon Adventures: Black & Whitehttps://bmgf.bulbagarden.net/showthread.php?t=102763, there are three recurring characters named Al, Alex (female) and Allison (Alex's sister) who are three Knights (grunts) of Team Plasma. Like Jessie, James and Meowth, they have their own motto. Problem is that I'm not sure if mine is good.

    I plan for it to just like the BW Team Rocket motto to homage them. Here it is:

    Alex: "'Who are you' is the question indeed."
    Al: "The answers to come as we feel the need."

    Alex: "Bringing the white light of truth into the bright future!"
    Al: "Thrusting the black hammer of justice onto the dark universe!"
    Allison: "Carving our names on the rock of eternity!"

    Alex: "The Fiery Destroyer, Alex!"
    Al: "With thunderous emotions, I'm Al!"
    Allison: "Wisest of the Wise, Allison!"

    All three: "NOW GATHER! Under the name of Team Plasma!"

    In addition, I plan to describe the various gestures they make.

    So what do you think? And if there are any questions about the characters, feel free to ask me.
     
    To be exceedingly blunt, it sounds exactly like Team Rocket's current motto. In fact, checking this out, you pretty much took the new motto word-for-word and replaced the names with those of your characters. :|

    That being said, let's get into the gentler advice. Why do you need a motto? In Team Rocket, only Jessie/James/Meowth and Butch/Cassidy have one, but that's pretty much it. JJ&M have one because they think they're creative and clever, but it really highlights the fact that they're tacky, egotistical, and meant to be the comic relief villains. (Their motto is usually extremely flowery and pretentious, and it's always about how awesome they are as villains.) Butch and Cassidy have one because they're supposed to be rivals to JJ&M. Other than that, the admins don't have one, other grunts (even those in the Raikou special) don't have one, and members of any evil team just go without them.

    For Team Plasma, while they do try to make their presence known wherever they go, they always try to paint themselves as the good guys. Therefore, if they create a motto at all, it shouldn't be the same as Team Rocket's because the Rocket motto is all about looking evil and looking good while being evil. I mean, I don't think a Team Plasma member, who would be all about bringing peace to Unova in all the wrong ways and liberating Pokémon, would be calling themselves "fiery destroyer" as if she's there to wreak havoc (like Jessie is). Moreover, while Plasma members are full of themselves at times, I'm not sure how many would call themselves the "wisest of the wise," especially given the fact that they give an immense amount of respect to the Seven Sages and the king who's supposed to be their utmost leader. So, putting themselves on a pedestal above either entity is a lot like stepping out of line and committing a little bit of treason, you know?

    And even then, you have to be careful about things like this. Far too many people resort to just making "homages" to Team Rocket, but in actuality, they just create stereotypical villains that don't really have much in the way of depth. Sure, they may have motivations, but those motivations are either restricted completely to "take over the world"/"destroy the world"/what canon gives them or otherwise somehow pretty typical for an antagonist. Then, if people have villains in a Pokémon fic, they frequently resort to giving them a motto and making them basically be Jessie, James, and Meowth in different bodies. You'll want to avoid both pit-traps because if you create characters like these, you'll be competing with other fics for attention. That is to say, a lot of other people create fics with these kinds of characters, so the more you sound a lot like those fics by following trends like these, the less you'll be able to stand out. The less you'll be able to stand out, the fewer readers will remember whether or not they like your fic. Does that make sense at all?

    I guess what I'm trying to say is it might not work to give your characters a motto, much less one that's basically Team Rocket's word-for-word. If you do do it, you'll want to put forth some extra effort to make your fic stand out head-and-shoulders above the rest. Moreover, if you do give your characters one, make sure it's for a reason other than "because Team Rocket does it." As in, remember that everything you make your characters do not only has to say something about them but also has to make sense to who they are and what they want to accomplish.

    Hope that helps in some form.
     
    To be exceedingly blunt, it sounds exactly like Team Rocket's current motto. In fact, checking this out, you pretty much took the new motto word-for-word and replaced the names with those of your characters. :|

    That was my intention from the beginning.

    That being said, let's get into the gentler advice. Why do you need a motto? In Team Rocket, only Jessie/James/Meowth and Butch/Cassidy have one, but that's pretty much it. JJ&M have one because they think they're creative and clever, but it really highlights the fact that they're tacky, egotistical, and meant to be the comic relief villains. (Their motto is usually extremely flowery and pretentious, and it's always about how awesome they are as villains.) Butch and Cassidy have one because they're supposed to be rivals to JJ&M. Other than that, the admins don't have one, other grunts (even those in the Raikou special) don't have one, and members of any evil team just go without them.

    For Team Plasma, while they do try to make their presence known wherever they go, they always try to paint themselves as the good guys. Therefore, if they create a motto at all, it shouldn't be the same as Team Rocket's because the Rocket motto is all about looking evil and looking good while being evil. I mean, I don't think a Team Plasma member, who would be all about bringing peace to Unova in all the wrong ways and liberating Pokémon, would be calling themselves "fiery destroyer" as if she's there to wreak havoc (like Jessie is). Moreover, while Plasma members are full of themselves at times, I'm not sure how many would call themselves the "wisest of the wise," especially given the fact that they give an immense amount of respect to the Seven Sages and the king who's supposed to be their utmost leader. So, putting themselves on a pedestal above either entity is a lot like stepping out of line and committing a little bit of treason, you know?

    My reason: Because it's cool. Yeah, it's not a very good reason but if people don't like it in the actual fic, I'll remove it.

    And even then, you have to be careful about things like this. Far too many people resort to just making "homages" to Team Rocket, but in actuality, they just create stereotypical villains that don't really have much in the way of depth. Sure, they may have motivations, but those motivations are either restricted completely to "take over the world"/"destroy the world"/what canon gives them or otherwise somehow pretty typical for an antagonist. Then, if people have villains in a Pokémon fic, they frequently resort to giving them a motto and making them basically be Jessie, James, and Meowth in different bodies. You'll want to avoid both pit-traps because if you create characters like these, you'll be competing with other fics for attention. That is to say, a lot of other people create fics with these kinds of characters, so the more you sound a lot like those fics by following trends like these, the less you'll be able to stand out. The less you'll be able to stand out, the fewer readers will remember whether or not they like your fic. Does that make sense at all?

    Yes, and I, by no means, want to go down the route you said. Al, Alex and Allison stay true to Team Plasma's goal: liberating Pokemon from people and they are NOT stereotypical for the most part. I plan to make them just like the Team Rocket trio in the BW Anime right after BW23 and 24: a mix of seriousness and competence along with slight comic relief and light-heartedness.

    In addition, I do give them depth and good characterization. In fact, Al's backstory intertwines with one of the heroes as he's related to one of them. Alex and Allison are sisters who ran away from home and ended up in Team Plasma due to Rezo's (Ghetsis) manipulation. But as much as I'd like to say more, I won't due to spoilers.

    I guess what I'm trying to say is it might not work to give your characters a motto, much less one that's basically Team Rocket's word-for-word. If you do do it, you'll want to put forth some extra effort to make your fic stand out head-and-shoulders above the rest. Moreover, if you do give your characters one, make sure it's for a reason other than "because Team Rocket does it." As in, remember that everything you make your characters do not only has to say something about them but also has to make sense to who they are and what they want to accomplish.

    Well, trust me when I say that I'll execute their characters quite well. I've grown as a writer and I plan to show that in my fanfic. If you want to see it, check it out. It's right here on the Fanfiction forums.
     
    That was my intention from the beginning.

    So, wait. Your intention was to copy the Team Rocket motto word-for-word and claim it as your own? :| Because my point wasn't that I thought you were copying. It was that I think it's not that cool to plagiarize, even in a fanfic.

    My reason: Because it's cool. Yeah, it's not a very good reason but if people don't like it in the actual fic, I'll remove it.

    Put it this way. Right now, I'm actually a little bit turned off from your fic. Even in context, it would sound incredibly cheesy (because the Rocket motto inherently is), forced, cliché, and not terribly creative because, well, you're basically taking the motto word-for-word and claiming it as your own invention when you actually didn't put much effort into getting the rhyme scheme down or figuring out the images you wanted to use. On top of that, the fact that in this thread, you tried to make it seem as if you created the motto yourself and just wanted to make a Rocket-esque rhyme comes off as if you don't think particularly highly of your readers because it implies that you didn't think anyone would catch on.

    In short, yes, it's a bad idea, sorry to say.

    Yes, and I, by no means, want to go down the route you said. Al, Alex and Allison stay true to Team Plasma's goal: liberating Pokemon from people and they are NOT stereotypical for the most part. I plan to make them just like the Team Rocket trio in the BW Anime right after BW23 and 24: a mix of seriousness and competence along with slight comic relief and light-heartedness.

    So... you're still going to create characters who aren't particularly deep because they're basically knock-offs of some other characters? I don't mean to put it bluntly, but half of my point was that lots of authors tend to create characters who are basically JJ&M with different names and in different organizations. Taking the current JJ&M doesn't necessarily mean you're avoiding that problem.

    Moreover, there's a lot more to creating developed characters than just adding in a few little bits and pieces here and there. Lots of people have created antagonists who are related in some way to the protagonists. (I even have a few myself in a fic or several.) What I mean is you'll need to take your characters a step beyond that and make them act like people, not roles. As in, in order to create good antagonists (or protagonists, for that matter), your first step is to nail down their personalities and make them seem believable, not just copies of some other character out there.

    I've grown as a writer

    That's nice. Lots of people have, though. I mean, my writing two years ago isn't the same as my writing right now. If you don't grow as a writer, there's something wrong with you.

    However, just because you've grown as a writer doesn't necessarily mean much of anything. Most readers won't particularly care whether or not you've grown because all they'll see is what you're doing right at that moment. Therefore, instead of using "I'm better than I was" as a mantra, try using "I want to be better than I am now." As in, in order to improve as a writer, you'll need to get over how you thought you were not too long ago and look forwards, not backwards. Improve, not brood on the past. And I mean that in the nicest way possible because it'll only hurt you if you keep comparing yourself to how you once were instead of figuring out where your current weaknesses are and doing something to rectify them.

    If you want to see it, check it out. It's right here on the Fanfiction forums.

    To be blunt and honest, I'd be more inclined to do so if I had more of a reassurance that you'll pay attention to what reviewers are telling you. I've already gotten a little turned off by the plagiarism (which it really was, considering you didn't make a note that everything but the characters' names in that bit was actually from the anime), and you've just spent an entire post responding to my feedback (which you've asked for, mind you) by telling me you're a great writer capable of deep characterizations and whatnot.

    If you don't mind me saying, let me offer another piece of advice. The best way to advertise your fanfiction is to show that you're receptive to feedback. You can do this many ways. On your story thread, you can respond to reviewers with courtesy. On discussion threads, you can have intelligent discussions with other people. Alternatively, if you create threads asking for advice and feedback -- just like you tend to do -- you can meet each response with a sense of humility, gratitude, and the willingness to communicate. If you ask for advice but respond to it by telling me that it's not relevant, that's going to tell me to avoid your story because you won't be receptive of anything I have to say. (Fic authors who are like this generally churn out bland fic because they won't listen to concrit that could help them.)

    Tl;dr, don't ask for advice if you don't want advice. Also, this still isn't an excuse for plagiarism, sorry. :|
     
    So, wait. Your intention was to copy the Team Rocket motto word-for-word and claim it as your own? :| Because my point wasn't that I thought you were copying. It was that I think it's not that cool to plagiarize, even in a fanfic.
    No, I'm not going to claim it as my own at all! Jeez!
     
    No, I'm not going to claim it as my own at all! Jeez!
    Problem is that I'm not sure if mine is good.

    Alex: "'Who are you' is the question indeed."
    Al: "The answers to come as we feel the need."

    Alex: "Bringing the white light of truth into the bright future!"
    Al: "Thrusting the black hammer of justice onto the dark universe!"
    Allison: "Carving our names on the rock of eternity!"

    Alex: "The Fiery Destroyer, Alex!"
    Al: "With thunderous emotions, I'm Al!"
    Allison: "Wisest of the Wise, Allison!"

    All three: "NOW GATHER! Under the name of Team Plasma!"

    Jessie: Again is the question, so twerpish indeed.
    James: The answer to come as we feel the need.

    Jessie: Bringing the blinding white light of evil into the future.
    James: Thrusting the hammer of justice down into the black darkness of the universe.
    Meowth: And carving our names into the rock of eternity!

    Jessie: The fiery destroyer--Jessie!
    James: And with thunderous emotions--I am James!
    Meowth: Wisest of the wise--Meowth!

    All three: Known better...under the name of Team Rocket!

    Yeah, you're looking like you took the TR motto, changed only a few words (and the names of course), and then tried to claim it as your own. There's a homage to something, and then there's just plain stealing it, which is what you did. If you wanted to do a homage, it would have worked if you had thought up your own motto without using any words from the TR's motto. This is it copied word-for-word, and you said that it was your own work.

    I can see this thread isn't going to get any better. matt0044, you don't seem that welcome to hear advice from other members, since you only focused on one small part of Jax's post. If you are going to post threads asking for advice on your fanfic, you should expect that there will be posts that don't always agree with how you did something, and you can't react in anger or ignore them. That's just not how we do things here at FF&W.

    Thread closed.
     
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