Salamence Rant: How NOT to use Salamence in OU

[KorpiklaaniVodka]

If you don't like rants, kindly click the back button and enjoy your stay on other threads. I use harsh language here. This doesn't mean I have something against new players, though I will admit that I like to make fun of silly sets. It's just a game after all, and if you're bitching about it... there are problems.

| 52 | Salamence | 2.97775% | 76965 | 2.978% | 55800 | 2.758% | (unweighted stats)

Salamence is a D-rank Pokemon in the viability rankings, since it's mostly outclassed by Lati@s, Mega Charizard X and Mega Altaria, but it still has small perks over them, such as versatility. However, I need the feel to rant about Mence because I've seen extremely few players putting it to good use. And you know why? Because NOBODY USES IT CORRECTLY. This thread will hopefully help you if you ever plan on using Salamence in OU.

WHAT NOT TO USE:

#1: Focus Sash (6.11% usage)

Salamence @ Focus Sash
Trait: Moxie
EVs: 4 HP / 252 Atk / 252 Spe
Naive Nature

- Dragon Dance
- Outrage
- Earthquake
- Fire Blast / Iron Tail

This set looks good on paper, due to Salamence's excellent base 135 attack and Moxie, coverage on Ferrothorn and Skarmory, and killing everything else with Outrage. However... this set just isn't good. It was bad in BW, and It's absolutely terrible in XY. Locking yourself into Outrage is a very risky idea, especially with Mega Scizor and Fairy-types everywhere. Without Life Orb, you miss out on quite a few KOs, and Moxie means you can't take advantage of Intimidate. Also, this Salamence confers no utility whatsoever.

#2: Choice Specs (2.297% usage)

Salamence @ Choice Specs
Trait: Intimidate
EVs: 252 SpA / 4 SpD / 252 Spe
Timid Nature

- Draco Meteor
- Fire Blast
- Hydro Pump
- Dragon Pulse

This set is also one that looks pretty decent on paper, but honestly, just use Hydreigon. It has higher special attack (125 vs 110), is not weak to Stealth Rock, and has a much better movepool, which includes U-turn and Focus Blast.

Legitimate sets and how NOT to use them:

#1: Choice Scarf

Salamence @ Choice Scarf
Trait: Moxie
EVs: 252 Atk / 4 Def / 252 Spe
Jolly Nature

- Outrage
- Dragon Claw
- Earthquake / Fire Blast
- Iron Tail

DON'T JUST START WITH MENCE AND FIRE OFF AN OUTRAGE AT THE EARLIEST OPPORTUNITY FOR FUCK'S SAKE. I've seen a ton of players trying to do that. If your opponent has a Ferrothorn, you'll just be turned into setup fodder. Not to mention all the Fairy-types. ScarfMoxieMence is a Pokemon supposed to be used at late-game, when its checks are gone. If you absolutely need to use it at early-game, try to predict a switch with one of your coverage moves. That means Clefable and co., as well as Skarmory and Ferro get 2HKOed easily. I'm of the opinion that you absolutely need Magnezone (or Magneton) to make Mence work. Magnezone destroys Ferrothorn and other steel-types easily, while also threatening Clefable with a Choice Specs-boosted Flash Cannon. Really strong. Also, make sure you don't forget Moxie.
MoxieMence is to be used very carefully and smartly if you want it to succeed.

#2: Dragon Dance

Salamence @ Life Orb
Trait: Intimidate
EVs: 252 Atk / 4 Def / 252 Spe
Adamant / Jolly Nature

- Dragon Dance
- Dragon Claw
- Earthquake
- Iron Tail

Now this set is something that is hard to use, apparently. Nobody uses it correctly. First things first, don't bother with Moxie. Salamence gets few opportunities to set up anyway, so Intimidate might allow it to set up on some physical attackers, like Excadrill. Secondly, don't use Fire Blast. Once again, Magnezone becomes crucial, since it traps Ferrothorn, Skarmory and Mega Scizor and removes them with HP Fire. Despite Iron Tail's horrible 75% accuracy, it still kills Mega Aerodactyl and all fairy-types not named Azumarill, which otherwise revenge kill Mence easily. Thirdly, DO NOT TRY TO SET UP A DD AT EARLY-GAME. Just like Focus Sash. Wait until your opponent's Ferrothorn or Azumarill is gone, and then try to set up. Fourthly, get some Rapid Spin/Defog support, although Rapid Spin is recommended since it doesn't clear your own hazards. Excadrill and Mega Blastoise (or Starmie) are excellent candidates. And last but definitely not least, remember Salamence usually gets only one chance to sweep. Get some Wish support, Jirachi is a perfect candidate for this job due to its Steel/Psychic typing and flinching shenanigans.

#3: MixMence

Salamence @ Life Orb
Trait: Intimidate
EVs: 140 Atk / 116 SpA / 252 Spe
Naughty / Naive Nature

- Dragon Claw
- Draco Meteor
- Fire Blast
- Earthquake / Iron Tail

This is a set that is less dependent on Magnezone, since it uses Fire Blast. This set is honestly pretty difficult to justify using over something such as Kyurem-B, but Mence does have its perks, namely Intimidate and higher Speed, as well as access to Fire Blast. Once again, don't bother with Moxie, as Mence usually switches in and out a lot. Don't forget Rapid Spin/Defog either. Do not forget Fire Blast on this thing, otherwise you may as well just use Kyurem-B. And lastly, don't forget Wish.

#4: Lure Dragon Dance

Salamence @ Life Orb
Trait: Intimidate
EVs: 204 Atk / 52 SpA / 252 Spe
Naughty Nature

- Dragon Dance
- Draco Meteor / Hydro Pump
- Dragon Claw
- Iron Tail / Earthquake

I saw sets that used Draco Meteor as their sole attacking Dragon-type move. Massive mistake. If you think you can sweep decent players with only Fire Blast and Iron Tail... good luck, really. Firstly, if you're using Draco Meteor, MAKE SURE YOU KNOW WHY YOU'RE USING IT - YOU WANT IT TO ELIMINATE GLISCOR, LANDO-T, HIPPOWDON AND MEGA SABLEYE. Dealing 65%-70% to these Pokemon is absolutely huge, considering nobody expects Draco Meteor to be used once you see a Mence at +1/+1. It also puts them into the KO range of your Dragon Claw. If you're using Hydro Pump instead, MAKE SURE YOU USE MENCE ON A RAIN TEAM. Salamence actually has decent synergy with Politoed, and its Hydro Pump will put the hurt on the Pokemon I mentioned, as well as Rhyperior and Heatran. Don't forget that this Mence actually gets walled, depending on which coverage move it chooses. If it doesn't have Iron Tail, get some Scizor support. Without Earthquake, Magnezone and Heatran become excellent partners.

I honestly haven't tried the defensive Wish set, but I've seen it used to decent effect in Ubers, where it could abuse Intimidate and Body Slam, before going mega.

There you have it. Don't be like most players. Now I know what you're thinking, "all you did was to rant about something new players can't use", but seriously. Nobody uses it correctly. Well, nobody in the mid-ladder.

 

[Yoshikkko]

I mean, is this supposed to be advice? Or put new players down? It's not very constructive, imo you're also rly aggressive about it but hey that's just my opinion :( It's not very motivating if you start off with 'WHAT NOT TO *** USE' ya know?

 

[KorpiklaaniVodka]

I mean, is this supposed to be advice? Or put new players down? It's not very constructive, imo you're also rly aggressive about it but hey that's just my opinion :( It's not very motivating if you start off with 'WHAT NOT TO *** USE' ya know?

Yeah, it's supposed to be advice. I apologize if I sounded harshly, but I'm so pissed when I think about this dragon. Removed the f word though.

 

[Dark Azelf]

Honestly i think mence is a garbage mon this gen. I just see no viable reason to use it. Every Dragon outclasses it at its roles.

Want a specs user? Hydreigon
Want a better Scarf Dragon? Garchomp
Want a better DD user? Everything.
Want a better mix mon? Dragonite (who is also shit and should be uu) has access to SuperPower to actually tickle Chansey and Tran on mix sets, there is also cube.

It also has ridiculous 4mss. If you use Iron Tail > EQ or Fire Blast you literally lose to everything bar fairies. Any Moxie isnt going to work ever. Too many revenge killers and too many set up fodder moves and immunities/mediocre neutral coverage/lack of power. Not to mention being Stealth Rock bait doesnt help.

The only actual niche id use mence and you have mentioned is this, would be

Salamence @ Leftovers
248 HP / 224 Def or Sp.Def / 36 Speed (put in defenses if you use a - speed nature)
Impish / Careful / Sassy / Relaxed
Trait: Intimidate
- Wish
- Roost / Protect
- Dragon Tail / Toxic
- Flamethrower / Toxic

:\

 

[Howmander]

One thing I don't get is why you're putting down Salamence because various MEGA pokemon are better? Out of fairness, if you're going to compare a normal pokemon to MEGA pokemon wouldn't it be more logical to use MEGA Salamence? That's like saying "Swablu sucks because Mega Rayquaza is a much better flying type"

 

[Teravolt]

One thing I don't get is why you're putting down Salamence because various MEGA pokemon are better? Out of fairness, if you're going to compare a normal pokemon to MEGA pokemon wouldn't it be more logical to use MEGA Salamence? That's like saying "Swablu sucks because Mega Rayquaza is a much better flying type"

Mega Salamence is Ubers.

In Gen 4 (I think), Salamence was Ubers.

No, they are not in the same league.

Without the Megas they are useless (Charizard and Altaria). These Megas fit his role better because of the great offensive typing they have (Deffense is a different story). All 3 are weak to Rocks before and some still after Mega, so it's not like Rocks matter as greatly (though some are affected more). Honestly, I'm upset about seeing Mence being abused so poorly. I remember while his Mega was still viable. People used to use it so well. Sub DD wrecked chaos and most people knew how to use it well. Now they seem really desperate (or maybe just inexperienced, idk). I miss MegaMence, but even I agree it had to go.

 

[Howmander]

Mega Salamence is Ubers.

In Gen 4 (I think), Salamence was Ubers.

No, they are not in the same league.

Without the Megas they are useless (Charizard and Altaria). These Megas fit his role better because of the great offensive typing they have (Deffense is a different story). All 3 are weak to Rocks before and some still after Mega, so it's not like Rocks matter as greatly (though some are affected more). Honestly, I'm upset about seeing Mence being abused so poorly. I remember while his Mega was still viable. People used to use it so well. Sub DD wrecked chaos and most people knew how to use it well. Now they seem really desperate (or maybe just inexperienced, idk). I miss MegaMence, but even I agree it had to go.

Well if you're going by tiers then it STILL doesn't make any sense to compare them since Salamence is in UU, Mega Altaria and Mega Charaizard are in OU, so if you can't compare across different tiers you still can't compare Salamence to Mega Altaria or Mega Charizard:

https://www.smogon.com/dex/xy/pokemon/salamence
https://www.smogon.com/dex/xy/pokemon/charizard
https://www.smogon.com/dex/xy/pokemon/altaria

 

[PlatinumDude]

Well if you're going by tiers then it STILL doesn't make any sense to compare them since Salamence is in UU, Mega Altaria and Mega Charaizard are in OU, so if you can't compare across different tiers you still can't compare Salamence to Mega Altaria or Mega Charizard:

https://www.smogon.com/dex/xy/pokemon/salamence
https://www.smogon.com/dex/xy/pokemon/charizard
https://www.smogon.com/dex/xy/pokemon/altaria

Salamence's Mega Evolution was the sole reason why it saw usage in early OR/AS in the first place. It was banned because it was extremely versatile and tore things apart easily. Things that could counter the physically-based sets were generally smacked hard by the equally viable special sets.

When the Salamencite was banned to Ubers, Salamence's usage fell drastically.

 

[Teravolt]

Well if you're going by tiers then it STILL doesn't make any sense to compare them since Salamence is in UU, Mega Altaria and Mega Charaizard are in OU, so if you can't compare across different tiers you still can't compare Salamence to Mega Altaria or Mega Charizard:

https://www.smogon.com/dex/xy/pokemon/salamence
https://www.smogon.com/dex/xy/pokemon/charizard
https://www.smogon.com/dex/xy/pokemon/altaria

Then again, the title of this thread is called "How not to use Salamence in OU", OU being the ky word. And I thought he said Mence was OU D ranking, if I'm not mistaken? Idk could be wrong.

 

[Khaotic Kebab]

Intimidate + Defense buff upon going Mega + Access to DD + Aerialated Return + Outrage = CARNAGE

 

[Thursday]

Intimidate + Defense buff upon going Mega + Access to DD + Aerialated Return + Outrage = CARNAGE

Mega Mence is uber, so take out the defense buff and Aerioalite Return.

 

[srinator]

mence is really bad in ou imo, and ttbh outclassed by something that i think is terrible, dnite. which is p bad in itself :/

 

[KorpiklaaniVodka]

Honestly i think mence is a garbage mon this gen. I just see no viable reason to use it. Every Dragon outclasses it at its roles.

Want a specs user? Hydreigon
This.
Want a better Scarf Dragon? Garchomp
Well not really. ScarfChomp and ScarfMence are not used in the same way, Chomp is supposed to revenge kill, while Mence can revenge kill AND clean up with one moveset. The problem is that Chomp is arguably more effective at revenge killing.
Want a better DD user? Everything.
Mence has Intimidate.
Want a better mix mon? Dragonite (who is also shit and should be uu) has access to SuperPower to actually tickle Chansey and Tran on mix sets, there is also cube.
As for Dragonite, I don't really see how this pokemon is shit, due to its CB set which is extremely effective at plowing through balanced teams. Kyu-B is the one that somewhat outclasses Mence, but it lacks Fire Blast and is slower.

It also has ridiculous 4mss. If you use Iron Tail > EQ or Fire Blast you literally lose to everything bar fairies. Any Moxie isnt going to work ever. Too many revenge killers and too many set up fodder moves and immunities/mediocre neutral coverage/lack of power. Not to mention being Stealth Rock bait doesnt help.
You can use Iron Tail and get Magnezone support without needing to worry about Fire Blast. Almost all dragons need it, really. Also, at +1 Mence is honestly pretty difficult to revenge kill, since there are few scarfers who outspeed it (Keldeo? Latios? Chomp?) and only Weavile and M-Glalie (plus Mamo) revenge kill it with a prio move.
The only actual niche id use mence and you have mentioned is this, would be

Salamence @ Leftovers
248 HP / 224 Def or Sp.Def / 36 Speed (put in defenses if you use a - speed nature)
Impish / Careful / Sassy / Relaxed
Trait: Intimidate
- Wish
- Roost / Protect
- Dragon Tail / Toxic
- Flamethrower / Toxic

:\
This set looks great though. I'll try it on a semi-stall team and see how it works.

Comments in bold. You're mostly right, I just wanted to show Mence's advantages over its competition.

 

[Yoshikkko]

One thing I don't get is why you're putting down Salamence because various MEGA pokemon are better? Out of fairness, if you're going to compare a normal pokemon to MEGA pokemon wouldn't it be more logical to use MEGA Salamence? That's like saying "Swablu sucks because Mega Rayquaza is a much better flying type"

whaaaat? mega or not, some pokemon can fulfill the same role as others and do a better job at it. being mega has nothing to do with that rly.

 

[KorpiklaaniVodka]

whaaaat? mega or not, some pokemon can fulfill the same role as others and do a better job at it. being mega has nothing to do with that rly.

Opportunity cost, plus the fact that non-mega Charizard and Altaria really suck at taking hits, while (DD) Mence at least has Intimidate and can switch into something.

 

[Howmander]

whaaaat? mega or not, some pokemon can fulfill the same role as others and do a better job at it. being mega has nothing to do with that rly.

You've gotta read the whole post and who I was replying to, not just the last post I made

 

[halcyonic]

You've gotta read the whole post and who I was replying to, not just the last post I made

didnt yoshikko literally quote your whole post? lol

Well if you're going by tiers then it STILL doesn't make any sense to compare them since Salamence is in UU, Mega Altaria and Mega Charaizard are in OU, so if you can't compare across different tiers you still can't compare Salamence to Mega Altaria or Mega Charizard:

https://www.smogon.com/dex/xy/pokemon/salamence
https://www.smogon.com/dex/xy/pokemon/charizard
https://www.smogon.com/dex/xy/pokemon/altaria

so what if salamence is uu? people use it in ou still and they're using it really badly (and the pokemon itself already is bad in ou ;x) people need to realise that they are better ddancers in ou than salamence lol

basically we can compare salamence to mega zard x/mega altaria/etc cos we are discussing salamence's viability in ou, not uu.

 

[Howmander]

didnt yoshikko literally quote your whole post? lol


so what if salamence is uu? people use it in ou still and they're using it really badly (and the pokemon itself already is bad in ou ;x) people need to realise that they are better ddancers in ou than salamence lol

basically we can compare salamence to mega zard x/mega altaria/etc cos we are discussing salamence's viability in ou, not uu.

Ugh, that's what I'm talking about! I initially said that why are you (the OP) comparing salemence to two megas, the person who replied to me said you CAN'T compare Salamence or Mega Salemence ot Mega Altari or Mega Charizard because they're all in different tiers (which is who I was replying to in the second place) and Salamence itself is in UU, while the two megas are on OU and Mega Salamence is in Ubers (hence the links that are being quoted but not actually looked at) Salemence is on in OU, it's listed (by Smogon) as UU so why talk about it's viability in OU when it's not listed in OU but rather UU? Isn't that like asking why we're not talking about Surskit's viability in Ubers? If it's not in the tier why ask about it? And again, all those pokemon listed (salemence, mega salemence, and Mega Charizard & MEga Altaria are all in separate teirs from each other, so is everyone just saying stuff and not trying to make sense or what's happening?

 

[KorpiklaaniVodka]

Ugh, that's what I'm talking about! I initially said that why are you (the OP) comparing salemence to two megas, the person who replied to me said you CAN'T compare Salamence or Mega Salemence ot Mega Altari or Mega Charizard because they're all in different tiers (which is who I was replying to in the second place) and Salamence itself is in UU, while the two megas are on OU and Mega Salamence is in Ubers (hence the links that are being quoted but not actually looked at) Salemence is on in OU, it's listed (by Smogon) as UU so why talk about it's viability in OU when it's not listed in OU but rather UU? Isn't that like asking why we're not talking about Surskit's viability in Ubers? If it's not in the tier why ask about it? And again, all those pokemon listed (salemence, mega salemence, and Mega Charizard & MEga Altaria are all in separate teirs from each other, so is everyone just saying stuff and not trying to make sense or what's happening?

So basically, you think that UU and RU Pokemon are completely unviable? I'd like to know what you think about Weavile, Exploud or Mega Houndoom. Hell, Gourgeist-XL, which is PU, is viable in OU due to its awesome typing and support moves.

 

[halcyonic]

Ugh, that's what I'm talking about! I initially said that why are you (the OP) comparing salemence to two megas, the person who replied to me said you CAN'T compare Salamence or Mega Salemence ot Mega Altari or Mega Charizard because they're all in different tiers (which is who I was replying to in the second place) and Salamence itself is in UU, while the two megas are on OU and Mega Salamence is in Ubers (hence the links that are being quoted but not actually looked at) Salemence is on in OU, it's listed (by Smogon) as UU so why talk about it's viability in OU when it's not listed in OU but rather UU? Isn't that like asking why we're not talking about Surskit's viability in Ubers? If it's not in the tier why ask about it? And again, all those pokemon listed (salemence, mega salemence, and Mega Charizard & MEga Altaria are all in separate teirs from each other, so is everyone just saying stuff and not trying to make sense or what's happening?

wut

ok so to clear things up (i hope), salamence is terribly outclassed at everything it does in ou, but people still use it anyway for its niches and shit. while a pokemon may be in a tier lower than ou, that doesn't mean it can't perform in ou. chesnaught is a fine example, even though it's uu, it's an excellent physical wall that can perform well in balanced and stall teams in ou.

so basically this thread was created to inform people how to effectively use salamence in ou if one ever opted to use salamence, but others have questioned why even bother with salamence when better dragons such as mega charizard x and mega altaria exist. they can be compared because this is set in the ou environment, not uu.