Of Choice Band, STAB, and damage multipliers...

[Chibi Pika]

This is one thing that has bothered me for a while...

We all know that SuperEffective doubles damage, Choice Band/Specs is by 1.5, STAB is by 1.5 ect, but after looking at the Damage forumulas, I'm a bit confused:

Damage = ((((2 * Level / 5 + 2)* ATtackStat * AttackPower / Defense Stat)/ 50)+ 2)* STAB * Weakness/Resistence * RandomNumber / 100)

Now. Choice band multiplies your attack stat by 1.5, the equivalent of using DD and the like. SD muliplies by 2, and so on. But...does STAB multiply the damage by 1.5? It looks like it from the formula. And SD doubles your attack stat, but SuperEffective doubles the damage. Obviously, doubling the damage gets a bigger value overall, as the damage dealt from moves does not double after a SD. But to what extent? How much higher will the damage value be?

And combined? If you use EQ for 200 damage, and then use it with SD and SuperEffective, how much higher will the damage be, percentage-wise?

~Chibi~

EDIT: Graaagh, more confused now. I put in the formula for Groudon using EQ on Kyogre and got 183. After SD, it soared to 363. So SD does double the damage, just indirectly? What if other multiplyers come in, like Life Orb? Does that multiply the damage, the attack stat, or the attack power by 1.3?

EDIT2: Ah...thread moved... Sorry. I was gonna put it in Strategy/Movesets, but wasn't sure...

 

[Samson]

no, STAB only increases the power of the individual moves, not the stat boosts as well.

supereffective moves, as you know, doubles damage. so EQ = 200 base damage. then you have STAB (hurray donphan), it would be 200 X 1.5, which would be EQ=300 base damage.

notice i'm speaking of BASE damage. base damage consults the power of the MOVE itself.

swords dance and other stat boosting moves increase the STATS. so after a swords dance, a let's say 360 attack stat becomes 720.

so on rhyperior, the 720 + the 300 aren't put together. they go in separate areas in the damage formula.

as of how you should put them in the formula... don't ask me. i haven't once went through the trouble of calculating damage. that's silly ._.

 

[Waffle-San]

My biggest problem is what order to put the equations in but its always intrigued me.

 

[Richard Lynch]

Oi vey, I thought I escaped mathematics after my Calculus course was over. First off, whoever wrote this formula is a mathematical douche. A linear equation is ALWAYS going to be extremely difficult to figure out, especially if you're not that math savvy. Now, I went through the math to make sure everything checks out, and so far it does. My variation, which I will post, is a bit more simplified, and hopefully will clear up any confusion. Note the variables; the key is below. If you follow this, and do each bracket individually, the calculations should work out no problem.

(The little dots you see means "multiply"... it's how real mathematicians speak. ;))

WRONG FORMULA, SORRY! NEW ONE WILL BE POSTED SOON!

Of course,me posting this could very well be totally pointless... but eh, maybe it'll help a few people out.

Also, a note, for the weakness/resistances option:

[.5] is half damage, while [.25] is what you get with a 4x resistance, like Psychic against Metagross or the likes. If it's neutral damage, just use [1.0]. Okie dokie?

Also, if I for some reason got something wrong, please let me know and I'll update.

EDIT:

I just updated to include boosts in Attack stat. For example, if you used a Swords Dance, m would equal [2.0], or if you're holding Life Orb, m would equal [1.3], and a Dragon Dance... m = [1.5], and so on and so on. Same with a decrease; if you were burned, Attack is halved, then m = [.5]. A more difficult problem: If you get burned after, say, a Dragon Dance, and you're holding Life Orb: multiply ([1.5]*[1.3])*[.5] to get the final number for the m variable.

I actually just winged that one, so I really hope I got my math right. XD

And now my head hurts... so I'm off to bed.

 

[Lumine]

Jebus what are you? an Engineer or something?

 

[Richard Lynch]

Jebus what are you? an Engineer or something?

lol, nah, but I was a physics major for about a semester, so that helps out. This is actually basic math put up to look difficult... don't be intimidated by variables, I simply put them there to make things a bit easier, and to make the formula more concrete.

I went through the math of the formula posted above (the one from Serebii, I assume), and it actually does not work out, since the grouping is off (for example, you must do [2*t*n*(g/100)] all together before you add it to the first large bracket.) That was where the linear equation confused me at first, because it didn't work out otherwise, and really doesn't specify it. Like I said, whoever originally wrote the linear formula is a mathematical douche who probably can't do the math long-hand to save his life.

Later today I think I'll post an entire thread dedicated to damage calculations, and how to plug and chug, etc. I added a new variable, [b], to be multiplied to [a], and [b] just represents a possible Defense boost by the Foe (like Calm Mind, Acid Armor or Iron Defense), and, to a lesser degree, a Defense decrease (like Screech, although I'm not sure how much Screech lowers it, percentage-wise. I wouldn't think it's by [.5], but I could be wrong). I'd have to figure out the exact number by which Defense is boosted when these moves are used.

 

[Chibi Pika]

Ah, the part about the damage multipliers makes sense now. I'm gonne experiment with the formula and see which combinations affect the outpu in what way. The only advantage of the linear one is that it goes into a Ti83 easily, hehe...

But wait...the Serebii one is off...? That can't be, because I went through it like ten times and checking it with a damage calculator, and the results were the same, always.

...With all the parentheses, it really shouldn't matter whether or not the last part is multiplied together, or separately, should it?

And one thing...in the Serebii formula, the 2 towards the middle gets added to the main first part, then the sum is multiplied by all the multipliers a once. In yours, the first part is multiplied by the product of 2 and all the multipliers.

Does that affect the output? Like I said, I tested the formula with tons of automatic damage calculators, and always got the same output.

~Chibi~

 

[Richard Lynch]

EDIT:

Hey... I just did the math out (testing a SubPunch Gengar's Focus Punch against Standard Blissey), and I realized I am wrong. Serebii got the formula right, but their math skills are atrocious. You've just witnessed the most devastating fact in science and mathematics: NEVER go by one trial. I am right, though, that their math doesn't equal out. And also, their way of writing the equation is extremely confusing. When it comes to math, brackets are your friends! I shall make a new non-linear equation and post it then... I'll leave the above false one for nostalgia. XD

Two mistakes of mine:

1.) You divide the ENTIRE THING by 100 at the very end.
2.) You DO add the 2 before you multiply the STAB, W/R and random number.

The example from them I took... turned out to be situational.
Coincidence, you could say, the worst enemy of a scientist.

EDIT II:

Alright! I've gotten the final formula down. It's a simplified version of Serebii's (minus the bad math), that is a bit easier to understand. I also added a few things that would clear up confusion of Attack Boosts, and also Defense Boosts. Enjoy!

 

[Chibi Pika]

Okay, I think I get it now. The only reason I was confused was testing the same moves, same Pokemon, first in IV calculators and second with SPP's formula in a Ti83 landed the same values.

*Checks* Yeah...somehow they messed up multiplying during the last step... Dunno how, as everything up to that point is correct.

I was just worried cause I posted a huge amount of calculations here, acting as if I knew what I was doing, and it would suck if it was all wrong. xP

~Chibi~