Is suicide a selfish act?

Ultimately, you have to consider the damage to other people you could cause by killing yourself. The pro-suicide argument seems to be represented to some extent by "I can do whatever I want with my life, including end it." (at least that's what I've heard from some people). While I agree with this statement in principle, in practice it's not nearly that simple. The truth is, you're not living in a vacuum. Your actions are going to affect others.

So yes, I'd say suicide is a selfish act. Despite this I'm still agnostic about the concept. If you find your life truly miserable and see no way out, I'm not going to call you selfish for even considering the option of ending it.
 
Everyone has the right to suicide. And doing so does not violate others' right to self-ownership or property, so physically, it is not selfish. However, it can cause great emotional pain to others, so to them, the action is selfish. Im never going to judge another person if they suicide because it means they were in a lot of pain, and its selfish to tell someone to get over it if they are considering it. Because someone just doesnt get over something like that so quickly.
 
It's selfish in the sense that you are only doing it for what you perceive as your own benefit. Anything that is done for one's benefit is selfish, meaning that every action technically is. Even those typically seen as "selfless." (For instance, saving someone from a bad situation is still selfish because you want to do it because you would be upset if something happened to them, and you want to make yourself feel better.)

This isn't necessarily a bad thing though, as Johnny Mustang said above me. People have taken the word "selfish" and made it into a derogatory term, bending its literal meaning. Doing things for yourself is natural.

I think the true intent behind this question though is whether or not suicide can be considered "evil." As though the person is doing it purely to hurt others and with malicious intent. Ultimately, my response to this is no. As someone who has had many thoughts about committing suicide and has just had my own negative emotions threatening to crush me, I know exactly what this feels like. It hurts, and you just want release. It is a natural response to want to escape from that which hurts you and to want something better.

This isn't to say that its the right decision, or that I condone it. People other than you will get hurt, and when you're in the darkest moment, you don't really think about that. You can't, your mind is overrun and consumed. You're not thinking clearly. It isn't a good idea in most cases, but it isn't all your responsibility or fault either. Our emotions, especially powerful ones, are much harder to control than most people seem to think.

Life isn't so simple, it isn't so black and white. Everything has its positives and negatives. This includes suicide. An act that is inconsiderate, and selfish, but an act that is perfectly understandable none the less. This extends to peoples' reactions to it as well. Getting angry about it is also selfish and inconsiderate, (because that person is threatening your happiness by removing themselves from you), but also perfectly understandable. Essentially, everything is technicaly selfish, but that doesn't necessarily make the intent behind it evil or wrong. Suicide is especially included in this.
 
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Maybe it can be. It depends on how you look at it, I suppose. It's true that you may be leaving other people with problems to deal with in your absence--if you have children/dependents would be a good example, but another situation would be one in which you're in debt and it gets passed on to your family/relatives in your absence. But if neither of those two scenarios applies, then I fall pretty firmly into the "Your life, do with it as you please" camp. I think a lot of people incorrectly assume that people only commit suicide as an easy way to escape their problems without giving any thought to how their decision will affect others. But what if someone has tried their best and done everything they could to find happiness and to maintain a good life, but just couldn't no matter how hard they tried? Hanging in there even through that is tough, even if you're the most unselfish person in the world.
 
Depends on the suicide, honestly. There are a million different scenarios to kill yourself over, and they pretty much span the range of human existence. With that being said, I'm of the opinion that suicide is selfish to the extent that the needs of the people would be negatively affected by that act were neglected.
 
flight said:
Sometimes some (really I'm speaking for myself here but hey!) don't really want to see a psychologist because paying someone to give a **** about your feelings feels like the fakest thing in the world, and I'm really sorry for those who want to go into counseling as a career, but that's how I personally see things. Perhaps I am too strong of a cynic in this regard.
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I used to feel that vibe very much until I realized that perhaps a psychologist or counsellor isn't the best person to give a shit about your feelings because you have no organic relationship with them. I think psychologists and counsellors are people who are well-versed in the art of dealing with feelings and the mind, and they use their expert knowledge to help create solutions to get you back on your feet. Empathy is necessary to the degree of performing that function, but I've realized that empathy for empathy's sake is probably not the priority for their work. They don't care about you as a person in the same way that friends or family would, but they do care about you in order to help them help you.

flight said:
but ultimately if their day-to-day pain doesn't find any sort of outlet or solution, then they don't really have a choice.
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I think they very well have a choice - that choice is suicide. I think the acceptability of suicide is very much something that is socially constructed. In another place and another time, suicide might be something that people are more likely or less likely to do.
 
flight said:
That's the thing though, Kanzler. Am I going to be seen as another disorder, or am I going to be seen as a human being? Forgive me for being a tad (perhaps needlessly) overanalytical in this regard, but it's honestly what's going through my mind. I know they probably don't realistically care, and and it's that fact in itself that bothers me. I feel like any solution that they would suggest would be more out of the fact that they see me as another "case" rather than an individual.
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This all really depends on the therapist you're seeing. I'm sure there are some out there who just see others as a case. But you must also remember the reason why some people get into this profession; because they enjoy helping others. It isn't a particularly rewarding field, and many people are still immensely critical of it. In order to be a good therapist, I do think that you have to think of your patients as human beings and not just disorders. I think this also applies to any sort of doctor in general, but it is especially important to those who are doctors of the mind.
 
flight said:
That's the thing though, Kanzler. Am I going to be seen as another disorder, or am I going to be seen as a human being? Forgive me for being a tad (perhaps needlessly) overanalytical in this regard, but it's honestly what's going through my mind. I know they probably don't realistically care, and and it's that fact in itself that bothers me. I feel like any solution that they would suggest would be more out of the fact that they see me as another "case" rather than an individual.
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Look, I don't think it's wise to see a psychologist or other professional for the purpose of having someone give a shit about you because that's just setting yourself up for failure - there's just no way that they can be as intimate as family or friend. They're professionals. At the same time, it'd also be shooting yourself in the foot to go into counselling believing that you'll just be seen as another "case". I believe that most people who go into that kind of work have a genuine desire and drive to help other people. Assuming otherwise would be to treat them in bad faith. So there has to be a middle ground between seeing you as just another "case" and being essentially your friend and that's what being a good mental health professional is all about.

And even if you don't care, it's something that you just have to accept. The bottom line is that you may have issues of the mind that need dealing with and they are best equip you to help you deal with that. They're going to see you as a human being and not just another disorder. But they're not going to be your friend, because they won't know you in the same way that friends or family know you because they haven't been there, because you can't just call them up at 3 AM in the morning, because they don't have that kind of intimacy that is only found in friendship and there's no way or reason to somehow force that into being.

It's okay if they don't care about you (although that's probably not the case and there's no way to know for certain). I think it's important to recognize that people are capable of helping you in their own individual ways, even if it might not be as satisfactory as we desire. A mental health professional is not individually sufficient for one dealing with mental issues and it's important to acknowledge that going in

flight said:
Fair point, but at the same time, an argument can be made that there isn't.. Sure, consciously, they can make the choice to commit suicide, but the important question is: why? Because most of the time they feel that there isn't another choice and staying alive to experience more pain and suffering is not an option.
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Isn't that question socially constructed though? Isn't the feeling that there isn't another choice and staying alive isn't an option something that is grounded in the society we live in? It might be at face value, but I don't think it's obvious that one can reach the point where there is no other choice but suicide.
 
Instead of calling those who committed/attempted suicide selfish, one could have taken time express concern and pull them out of their darkness. When people (tried) end their life, it's not like they wanted to kill themselves so badly; their emotions (and even perhaps their mental) aren't in a situation where they can decide things like a person with a healthy emotion; they are forced to do that, because there's no way to turn back; the victims felt utterly trapped in the situation they are facing.

I don't really mean to make this post in a 'me' thing, but:
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flight said:
Forgive me, I'm slightly confused at what you're getting at with this. o.o; Especially the latter part; it's definitely plausible to be at that point where there is no other choice, there just has to be a ****ton of circumstances that leads to said point.
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I guess theoretically there is always a point where suicide happens, because it, well, happens. But I think it's a matter of culture when we talk about it as something that happens "when there is no other choice". I think it's a peculiar way of putting it and I think there are many ways of framing the idea of suicide that don't emphasize so strongly the lack of agency caused by your mental state. I guess when I read "they don't really have a choice" I disagree with the extent of inevitability that's implied in that statement.
 
Suicide is a very selfish act, especially if you have unpaid debts (even if they don't pass to your family, someone lost money because of you, it doesn't matter if this person is rich anyway) and a lot of people who care about you. I got used to death (actually I didn't even have to get used to death, I didn't really care about death of people I love in the first place), so it wouldn't affect me if my friend committed suicide, but from what I've seen, suicide can destroy someone else's life and even lead to another suicide.
I can't imagine a good reason to commit suicide. Even if your life is pretty bad, it's probably because you don't even want to do anything about it.
 
One could argue that seeing psychologists/psychiatrists is fake because they're being paid to listen or treat you, but I consider that view in and of itself to be selfish since the statement of "they're being paid so they don't give a damn" seems to be a first-glance generalising statement to me. How can you know for sure that they don't care? Just because people are paid that doesn't mean they don't care. These psychologists/atrists are, for all intents and purposes, doctors. That means they are bound by the Hippocratic Oath they themselves took; even if paid, they are obligated to care. They are obligated to treat you to the best of their abilities. It's not a field for people who don't give at least a modicum of damn. Let's also not forget that doctors are people too and like most people, they need to pay rent/monthly mortgage.

That being said, suicide is tricky and for at least a small part, yes, it is a selfish act; a lot of suicides fail to take into account the affect it will have on loved ones left behind. However, "selfish" caries a lot of negative weight, more so than most people saying it want to think. As a result, because a lot of suicides are the result of mental turmoil, I often find myself thinking that calling it a selfish act is akin to victim blaming. Suicide isn't a rational act by any stretch of the definition, but it's often the result of circumstances the victim never asked for, including their mind to register that there isn't any other solution.

All in all, I can't really consider much of a selfish act, mostly because I find it impossible to refer to it as such straight to the faces of the victim's loved ones. "Your [victim's position her] was selfish to commit suicide." Could you?
 
There would be far fewer suicides in the world if everyone's basic needs were met, people had access to medical professionals, and didn't have to worry about money. If you look at it that way a lot of suicides are because of selfishness in other people. I know that's a simplistic view, but I think it's important to look at the broader factors in people committing suicide.

Regarding therapists' not really caring: It's hard for someone like me to believe, but there are people who can just meet you and care about you. I'm not saying this is going to be every therapist, but it's an actual thing in some people. And when you suffer from depression it can be hard in general to feel like even the people you know care for you care for you. So sometimes you have to take someone's word that they do care for you even if it doesn't seem like they do.
 
I don't think the question of whether or not suicide is selfish really matters. Someone suffering from suicidal ideations doesn't really care if people will think they're selfish, because they're just in such a bad place.

That said, what I've heard from people who work at suicide hotlines is that if a suicidal person calls in, the best way to prevent them from going through with it is to remind them of at least one reason to stay alive, and those reasons might be in the vein of "my sister would really miss me," or could even be "my plant would die if I didn't water it." So that means calling on people to be selfless in order to stay alive (without necessarily making them feel guilty), which I found interesting.


flight said:
You make perfectly valid points here, some of which I haven't considered. I don't mean to group every psychologist here, but it's really just my cynicism of the profession itself. I don't expect them to be my best friend, but I just want the one that I go to, to actually be genuine and not.....pretend like they care just because it's their job to, y'know?
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As has been said, I think it's important to remember that a lot of people go into the profession because they genuinely care about people. That said, when deciding to start seeing a therapist/coulsellor/psychologist, it's encouraged that you "shop around" to find someone you like, that you gel with, that is respectful and understanding of you. You don't have to settle for first person you see! Just like with other kinds of doctors, you'll find people who are better at their job than others, and who you'll like more than others. Just because you see one professional who doesn't care about you and only sees you as another "case" doesn't mean they're all like that.

This might sound strange, but I don't think medical professionals are necessarily there to "care about our feelings" - that's what friends and family are for. A therapist is still on your side, but their role is to help you understand your feelings, and work with you to determine how to deal with those feelings and other aspects of your life. That said, in the process of doing that they usually will come to care about you and your feelings because they are still human beings, but their job is to remain professional and as a result, retain a certain emotional distance.


Sycamorph said:
Suicide is a very selfish act, especially if you have unpaid debts (even if they don't pass to your family, someone lost money because of you, it doesn't matter if this person is rich anyway) and a lot of people who care about you. I got used to death (actually I didn't even have to get used to death, I didn't really care about death of people I love in the first place), so it wouldn't affect me if my friend committed suicide, but from what I've seen, suicide can destroy someone else's life and even lead to another suicide.
I can't imagine a good reason to commit suicide. Even if your life is pretty bad, it's probably because you don't even want to do anything about it.
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The idea that someone's life is only bad "because you don't even want to do anything about it" is really awful and really wrong. People reach the point of wanting to commit suicide for all kinds of reasons, and not all of those reasons are within one's control. For example, maybe a loved one died, their home was destroyed, the company they work for went bankrupt and laid them off, or they have a debilitating or even terminal illness. None of those things are within our control, and the idea that people can always control their situation is simply ignorant. The only thing we can control is how we react to any given situation, and even that can be limited.

We also have to remember that mental illness is a tricky and complicated thing, and is also not something that can be turned off or on. Depression is caused by very real chemical imbalances in the brain, and is best treated by professionals on a case-by-case basis. Again, we can't control depression, we can only control how we treat it.

~Psychic
 
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No suicide is not a selfish act definitely. First of all, God gave you life not to waste it but probably (as someone not as smart as others can think) to do something even if it is small or not to try to never give up. Let's also not forget how important life is. It goes up and down all the time in your memory clear your ''downs'' and keep your ''ups''. Another vital part of life is why is so important it's simple. People cannot die by a weapon, illness, drugs e.t.c. People can die only when they are forgotten so the best is to respect them with honor no matter what they did in their life or if it was bad or good. I think up there where we will head after we pass away we will be judged and i think it's a bad idea to suicide for nothing. Because people think mistaken that's why some suicide by all those things that create a pain in their heart but actually there are tons of them who can get rid of easily without making so much pain. Just keep pushing on, don't give up and ask around surely there are people out there for everyone. To sum up, as i said in a previous post people are like cards with some you match with some you don't just accept it and move on and never and i will repeat no matter what NEVER hurry your life, get jealous e.t.c live it and enjoy it as you wish :). Hope it helps.
 
Sycamorph said:
I can't imagine a good reason to commit suicide. Even if your life is pretty bad, it's probably because you don't even want to do anything about it.
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In many cases, those who commit suicide may not have access to resources that will enable them to do something about their condition, so I don't think it's fair to say they usually don't want to.

I think committing suicide is selfish in the technical sense of the term, much like thinking suicide is selfish. As much as many don't want to admit, thinking suicide is selfish is in itself, a selfish act.
 
flight said:
I don't expect them to be my best friend, but I just want the one that I go to, to actually be genuine and not.....pretend like they care just because it's their job to, y'know?
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Forgive me if this question implies heartlessness, but can you define the specifics of what makes a psychiatrist genuine? I honestly don't know how to distinguish this quality.
 
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I used to always want to commit suicide because I was being bullied and crap in school and in public. I never looked at it as a selfish act until I was 20 years old. I never have trusted therapists and I was afraid to take meds because if people found out I took them I would never have any friends (this was teenager me). I never cared if it hurt anyone then my closest cousin committed suicide and I realised that it was not worth it. But the matter is to an extent suicide is selfish if you leave a loving family and great, close friends behind, but if your like me a bit of a shy person with 0 friends and stuff like that and your family is meh towards you then yeah if it hurts that bad then I guess do it. But before you do it think about it and try to change your thoughts on the matter and see if you can change what is causing your reason(s) to commit suicide before making your choice.
 
"Selfishness" is defined as lacking consideration for others. One could be called selfish for lacking consideration for someone's desire to kill themselves. That sounds pretty insane, right?

It's not a selfish act; it's an ultimate act of desperation born of an extremely troubled and tumultuous mind. It boils my blood when I hear someone refer to suicide as selfish, because there are just some personal demons that not even the love and support of those around you can defeat.
 
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