2nd Gen Ho-Oh Creation?

[Redstar]

For awhile now I've been wondering about the creation of Ho-Oh in terms of the franchise. Obviously it was featured in the very first episode of the anime, and is considered a Generation II Pokemon, but the exact details of its creation seem rather unclear to me.

Because of this I've been looking at the years of production for the various media in an attempt to find out which branch of the Pokemon franchise had the most involvement in creating Ho-Oh. These are the years for the various media that I have looked at:


Red and Green released in Japan in February 27, 1996 and in North America as Red and Blue on September 1, 1998

The anime first aired in Japan on April 1, 1997 and in the United States on September 8, 1998

Gold and Silver version released in Japan on November 21, 1999 and in the United States on October 15, 2000


According to PKMN.Net, Gold and Silver was in production as early as 1997 (one year after Red and Green and the same year as the anime). The anime is almost an entity distinct from the games, branching out as the original season went on and culminating with the Orange Island arch, though it may have returned to the canon of the games or continued the way they were going past. I'm not sure; I stopped watched after the Johto-themed seasons.

The anime is an entirely different media for the franchise, and I don't know Satoshi Tajiri or Ken Sugimori's exact level of involvement (though the differences would suggest it is very minimal).

My question is basically, did the anime create Ho-Oh and it was added to the Gold and Silver games due to that influence, which would make Ho-Oh really a first generation Pokemon introduced in the second generation games, or did the main media of the games actually have a level of involvement with the anime that would be strong enough to introduce Ho-Oh? I'm almost leaning towards the anime chiefly creating Ho-Oh in that its first appearance is more reminiscent of a peacock than a phoenix, which would suggest a thematic change orchestrated by the game canon.

 

[MessiahForHire]

Well, I'm just speculating, you said that G/S were in production in the same year the anime came to be, so maybe there was some concept art of Ho-oh beforehand, and the the anime picked that up. It would mean that Ho-oh officially became a pokemon in the anime, but it was already concieved before that.

 

[varial295]

TRUE
BUT REMEMBER WHEN ASH TOLD OAK ABOUT THE HO-OH AND OAK TOLD HIM WAT IT WAS ABOUT IN THE ANIME
ALSO ALL THE REGIONS WERE STILL IN PLAY AT THE MOMENT ASH JUST DIDNT KNOW ABOUT IT

 

[MessiahForHire]

TRUE
BUT REMEMBER WHEN ASH TOLD OAK ABOUT THE HO-OH AND OAK TOLD HIM WAT IT WAS ABOUT IN THE ANIME
ALSO ALL THE REGIONS WERE STILL IN PLAY AT THE MOMENT ASH JUST DIDNT KNOW ABOUT IT

Er, no, refresh my memory on that?
Also, yes, it's true that the other regions existed at that point if you look at it from according to pokemon lore, but for all intents and purposes of my point, they didn't, seeing as Nintendo hadn't really invented them yet. :P

 

[Redstar]

I'm watching that episode (Pokemon Emergency!) right now, and Professor Oak doesn't say anything clear about Ho-Oh to distinguish it from the other legendary birds. Note that Ash points out an Articuno (vague, but the blue slab is the prime indicator), so it's probably just amisinterpretation on Ash's part. Even if there was a slab of Ho-Oh, it's unlikely that Professor Oak would know much more about it, Ho-Oh being a much more rare Johto legend.

Another possibility is that the animators really thought that that is how Articuno looks, so in making the mistake in drawing him that way the game creators saw it as an example to correct the mistake by making it an actual Pokemon. That's an unlikely theory, but it is possible.

 

[IIMarckus]

Pokémon are not created immediately prior to each generation (or at least they weren't at the time of G/S). Instead, the team had a large number of ideas for monsters and only used some of them for Red and Blue. When the series became a runaway success, they had a chance to use more of the monsters for the eventual sequel.

 

[Redstar]

I didn't think that Pokemon were created for a specific generation. Obviously there's going to be a whole process in deciding who gets in, and as another generation comes out they might take another look at those that didn't make it.

My misunderstanding is that the timeline for the first and second generations and the anime overlap quite a bit, and since the anime came out closer in time to the first generation then the second I was curious how Ho-Oh was included. The anime is an entirely different media of the franchise, and under the direction different than the game. So it seemed entirely likely to me that maybe the anime created Ho-Oh and the games picked up on it.

But now I'm leaning towards the anime being a spin-off of the games, and Ho-Oh included as a well to advertise the coming generation. The anime premiered in 1997, a year that Gold and Silver were in production for. So although completely different entities, it makes sense that the anime would be used as an advertisement to get the fans excited for the next generation.