Charizard?

[ultranerd57]

Ok ive trained a charizard with a bad sp atk nature with out ev training it and its sp tk is still higher but it learns a lot of powerful atk based moves which should be raised?
possible moves and natures

Charizard 1
modest
252 sp atk 252 spd 6 def
flamethrower
air slash
???
???

Charizard 2
adamant
252atk 252 speed 6def
earthquake
dragon claw
shadow claw
flamethrower

 

[Anti]

To make this short, it depends on your team. Bellyzard is easy to counter, but oh so strong. Maybe that would be a good idea.

 

[Sora_8920]

To make this short, it depends on your team. Bellyzard is easy to counter, but oh so strong. Maybe that would be a good idea.

**Bellyzard @:Salac Berry
Trait: Blaze
Adamant/Lonely/Brave Nature
Belly Drum obviusly
Substitute
Flamethrower/Fire Blast
Earthquake/Focus Punch. Subpunching is nice.

 

[Iceman3k]

**Bellyzard @:Salac Berry
Trait: Blaze
Adamant/Lonely/Brave Nature
Belly Drum obviusly
Substitute
Flamethrower/Fire Blast
Earthquake/Focus Punch. Subpunching is nice.

You do realize that Sub is only going to work ONCE right?
Also, Brave nature should NEVER be used on ANY form of Charizard.

Now here's what a REAL Charizard with Belly Drum looks like:

Moveset 7
Charizard (M) @ Shell Bell ** Crunchy Black ©
Ability: Blaze
EVs: 28 HP / 252 Atk / 228 Spd
Jolly Nature (+Spd, -SAtk)
- Belly Drum
- Flare Blitz / Fire Punch
- Earthquake
- Dragon Claw
Obviously, this operates off of pure prediction. Send it in on the right thing (you know, like a Steelix for example), Belly Drum, then Attack at will. Fire Punch is if you're afraid of the Recoil that Flare Blitz offers.

If you intend on running Fire Blast instead of Fire Punch / Flare Blitz, then run Naive Nature instead of Jolly.

Now as far as other uses for Charizard:

Charizard @ Choice Specs
Ability: Blaze
EVs: 4 HP / 252 Spd / 252 SAtk
Timid Nature (+Spd, -Atk)
- Overheat / Fire Blast
- Dragon Pulse
- Focus Blast
- Air Slash
Charizard with Choice Specs.

Charizard (M) @ Leftovers / Shell Bell
Ability: Blaze
EVs: 104 HP / 252 Atk / 16 Def / 136 Spd
Adamant Nature (+Atk, -SAtk)
- Dragon Dance
- Flare Blitz
- Earthquake
- Dragon Claw
DD Charizard, which is probably the LEAST form of an attacking Charizard, but somewhat useful.

 

[Samson]

bellyzard needs salac berry... otherwise it gets outsped and owned.

i'd also want you to consider Choice Scarf. it really does have a very nice movepool and ground resistance for it to surprise things that would normally make waste of it.

 

[J Dog]

use this set:

Charizard@Life Orb
Trait: Blaze
Modest Nature
EVs: 252 Speed/252 Sp At/6 At
-Heat Wave
-Dragon Claw
-Earthquake
-Dragon Dance

the only problem with this set is, you might have to dragon dance before you can use physical attacks since his base att will probably only be around 220.
but sp att will be around 290.
you really need a different nature like naughty for this set to be truly effective. with naughty his base att would be around 250 and his base sp att would be around 320 making him a really effective mixed sweeper.

 

[Iceman3k]

use this set:

Charizard@Life Orb
Trait: Blaze
Modest Nature
EVs: 252 Speed/252 Sp At/6 At
-Heat Wave
-Dragon Claw
-Earthquake
-Dragon Dance

the only problem with this set is, you might have to dragon dance before you can use physical attacks since his base att will probably only be around 220.
but sp att will be around 290.
you really need a different nature like naughty for this set to be truly effective. with naughty his base att would be around 250 and his base sp att would be around 320 making him a really effective mixed sweeper.

You don't run Modest with a Dragon Dance set, Heat Wave sucks, and those EVs are all wrong.

 

[J Dog]

uhmmm, dd because hes a mixed sweeper, the evs are perfect, and heat wave is a good move, what are you talking about?

 

[Iceman3k]

uhmmm, dd because hes a mixed sweeper, the evs are perfect, and heat wave is a good move, what are you talking about?

Except you're using a Dragon Dance with a -Atk Nature, which is obviously a big no. Second, you don't run MAX SPECIAL ATTACK on something that only has one Special Attack.

Lastly, Heat Wave sucks compared to Flamethrower. Flamethrower has 100% Accuracy, and Heat Wave has 90, and only 5 more in base power. To be perfectly honest, if you're going to suggest Heat Wave, you'd do a better job suggesting Fire Blast.

 

[J Dog]

Except you're using a Dragon Dance with a -Atk Nature, which is obviously a big no. Second, you don't run MAX SPECIAL ATTACK on something that only has one Special Attack.

Lastly, Heat Wave sucks compared to Flamethrower. Flamethrower has 100% Accuracy, and Heat Wave has 90, and only 5 more in base power. To be perfectly honest, if you're going to suggest Heat Wave, you'd do a better job suggesting Fire Blast.

thats the point of d dance, it makes the - att nature not matter as much. if you get a d dance in, your att will be around 300. and you max out the sp att evs because without them, your one and only sp att (whether it be heat wave or flamethrower) would be weak and pointless. you have to put them in, and you may aswell max out sp att since you dont really need to put the evs anywhere else.i guess you could put them in hp or something, but why wouldnt you just supe up his sp att?

 

[Iceman3k]

Okay, I still don't think you understand the point of Dragon Dance.

Dragon Dance is an attack to be used by Physical Sweepers. The whole point of having Flamethrower / Fire Blast on Charizard is so that it can wipe out The Common Physical Tanks, which it really doesn't need any Special Attack EVs in order to accomplish.

The -Atk nature matters a MEGALOAD, no matter how it's used. It makes Dragon Dance completely useless, as Charizard still does **** to anything that comes its way (Let's face it, 180 Atk x1.5 is only putting Charizard at 270 Atk, and that's not even enough to consider him even a minor threat :p). Charizard with a +Atk Nature, and 1 Dragon Dance puts him at a lethal 434, which is WAY more than a meager 270.

What you're trying to do is useless, which is run a Physical Sweeping Set with a -Atk nature and max SAtk. There's no point of using Dragon Dance AT ALL if it's not being backed by a +Atk Nature. And there's also no use of all of those SAtk EVs and you're only using one special attack.

In short, Charizard with Dragon Dance needs to be ran with a +Atk Nature, and does not require SAtk EVs when you're only using One Special Attack, which purpose is to KO Skarmory, Steelix, Forretress, and Scizor.

You may take this for whichever kind of explanation that you please, but I'm just about tired of trying to explain it.

 

[J Dog]

i know, mine has a + at nature.
and i even said at the beginning he should get a different nature,

you really need a different nature like naughty for this set to be truly effective.

but he couldve tried to make use of the mixed sweeper charizard.
i dont know, i give up on this.
he probably isnt even gonna take any of this advice anyway...
sorry for argueing with you iceman.

 

[ultranerd57]

i know, mine has a + at nature.
and i even said at the beginning he should get a different nature,




but he couldve tried to make use of the mixed sweeper charizard.
i dont know, i give up on this.
he probably isnt even gonna take any of this advice anyway...
sorry for argueing with you iceman.

I will use some of the advice its just i didnt post so i could see both points through because before making a mixed sweeper never crossed my mind but now i see that would advantage charizard